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We can break down classes into a multitude of groups based on money, or power, or status or education. We can talk about old money versus new money and people with connections and those who advanced on their own.
To me most of those categories are of minimal value. To me there is one big factor that divides the upper and working classes. The best description is attitude. Those in the upper class have self confidence, the belief that they deserve to succeed and will succeed, the belief that they help, at least to some degree, determine the direction of society. Those in the lower class lack the self confidence. No matter how successful they might become they are never that confident. They never quite believe they deserve or can retain their successes and they feel like they are at the mercy of the world with all its scapegoats and hidden conspirators.
We can break down classes into a multitude of groups based on money, or power, or status or education. We can talk about old money versus new money and people with connections and those who advanced on their own.
To me most of those categories are of minimal value. To me there is one big factor that divides the upper and working classes. The best description is attitude. Those in the upper class have self confidence, the belief that they deserve to succeed and will succeed, the belief that they help, at least to some degree, determine the direction of society. Those in the lower class lack the self confidence. No matter how successful they might become they are never that confident. They never quite believe they deserve or can retain their successes and they feel like they are at the mercy of the world with all its scapegoats and hidden conspirators.
Why are poor people derided when they believe they deserve to succeed?
Why are poor people derided when they believe they deserve to succeed?
You cut off my statement. The non-working class people not only believe they deserve to succeed, but the believe they will succeed. Someone's derision just does not apply. If you know you deserve to succeed and WILL succeed, then you can do something about your situation. You find what it takes. You make the efforts and take the steps. Then when you do succeed it is not a surprise. It is not something that is going to vanish. It is just one more step in the right direction.
In contrast the working class seems to play the victim. Someone or something is always against them and never quite lets them succeed. They don't believe they are smart enough to learn math. They don't believe they have the ability to be the boss. They just plod along and sure enough their defeatist attitude sets the tone of their life and the expected outcome follows.
What's really surprising is the number of responses that assign a state of mind as a thing equal to all the peripheral circumstances which result in the various levels of social class. To some, the idea that our circumstances are largely a thing within our control, leads to the notion of economic well being as something obtainable, through utilization of will, regardless of evidence to the contrary.
If we could all just will ourselves into that better job, or a better education, better parental direction, and thus "move up" on that economic scale I'd think the current economic balance would be very lopsided on the upper end of things. Very few ever will themselves to be poor, or under-educated, but circumstances beyond the control of the individual certainly steers one in the direction of less--less of everything.
Class, and all that infatuation with socio/economic measurement has a lot to do with what drives some people, but few ever rise beyond their birth class on their own will. We have higher and lower classes, and we will always have the circumstances which provides the aggregate for that social construct.
If we could all just will ourselves into that better job, or a better education, better parental direction, and thus "move up" on that economic scale I'd think the current economic balance would be very lopsided on the upper end of things. ......
Based on your attitude, can you guess what class I would put you in?
Everything you say is defeatist or fails to grasp what you can do. To succeed you don't just "will" success. To obtain something, you don't just decide you want it. You take the attitude that you can succeed and you get off your butt and find a way. People with that sort of self confidence almost always move forward. Those without it, stay in the working or lower classes. They always have an excuse and a reason for their situation. They find someone to blame. They talk about the government and conspiracies and other people determining their lives.
Will and want are a lot different than self confidence, ambition, drive, determination and hard work.
I was raised by a Child of Alcoholics that moved in with an alcoholic ex-preacher that worked in a huge locomotive factory. He was obsessed with trains (and himself and alcohol) and built a child size amusement park railroad near Albany, NY in the 1950's. I was put to work on that rail road starting when I was six years old. As I grew older I effectively became the guy that ran the railroad as I had to fix everything that broke. That was much of the stuff and he was a creative artist but not a good machine designer. I was using machine tools and welding machines by 10 years old. OH- did I mention that this guy liked to hit people? Well he did so long as they did not hit back. Between 14 and 16 I put on about 60 pounds of muscle and meanness. Eventually I convinced him to stop hitting me. He hit my mother instead and she ran away and sent us straight into poverty.
I had joined the Navy and eventually wound up in 'Nam. After I got home I met a girl and we married. Her parents helped us both go to college. I worked in factories as a machinist and machine builder during the summers. I has a BS degree in Environmental Scientist and worked in that career (mostly - tried running my own business but it had to be closed) for some 45 years. The last 25 were as a State Environmental regulator and investigator. I have retired and am active in local politics.
Although I scored a 61, I am no longer working class even if I think, as I did most of my life, that I am. My hobbies are travel (2004 Corvette) and writing essays on City Data and a couple other places. Life is good even if we still remain fairly frugal in our lives. I consider myself blessed in that I am neither compulsive, a tobacco smoker or an alcoholic. Unfortunately still somewhat addicted to adrenaline. I still enjoy fear but I have to be very, very careful with it.
Based on your attitude, can you guess what class I would put you in?
Everything you say is defeatist or fails to grasp what you can do. To succeed you don't just "will" success. To obtain something, you don't just decide you want it. You take the attitude that you can succeed and you get off your butt and find a way. People with that sort of self confidence almost always move forward. Those without it, stay in the working or lower classes. They always have an excuse and a reason for their situation. They find someone to blame. They talk about the government and conspiracies and other people determining their lives.
Will and want are a lot different than self confidence, ambition, drive, determination and hard work.
Jim, everyone doesn't subscribe to your assertions, we all present different opinions on issues covered here. Why you would think I have any interest in "what class" you would assign me to, is beyond me. You seem to barking madly about the "working class" and how "they" are blaming everyone, I quote a post by you, wherein your sentiments, with regard to those in the working class, seems revealing of a disdain rather than an examination of class. "In contrast the working class seems to play the victim."
I know plenty of people in the working class and none are feeling themselves to be victims. Your assertions of people simply applying their robust self confidence along with other Horatio Alger attributes in order to advance themselves economically flies in the face of a quite different economic reality. Many of the studies done on class in American society suggest a much more complex social dynamic is determining class barriers, and that class mobility is largely an American myth. One can earn more, live in a bigger home, drive an expensive car--but fail to "move up" in the societal class structure.
The incessant bleating about the "non working class," coupled with your disdain of those in the working class only tells me that you are confused as to what constitutes class, as opposed to wealth. Yes, having a positive outlook can certainly be a help when attempting to improve one's lot in life, but, beating the drum of self responsibility while ignoring the real constraints of a class conscious society doesn't seem to present a fair assessment of American social class and all that it implies.
........ Your assertions of people simply applying their robust self confidence along with other Horatio Alger attributes in order to advance themselves economically flies in the face of a quite different economic reality. .......
You continue to equate class with money and financial status. I do not. I see it mostly as an outlook and attitude.
You continue to equate class with money and financial status. I do not. I see it mostly as an outlook and attitude.
Actually, I see class as a much more complex thing than could be adequately covered in any web forum. And no, I don't equate class with the amount of a persons wealth, nor do I see it as a status thing. I do however, think of class as a reflection of how we have erroneously determined a persons value, and unfortunately we persist in that notion. Your over the top disdain for the less fortunate makes me wonder about your ability to have compassion, a quality that certainly equates to a certain level of understanding beyond that of your own circumstance...
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