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Slowly better. We need a combination of jobs picking up and Americans coming to grips to what their worth in the job market is. Seems a lot of people want to live like the used to during the bubble.
While that is true for higher wage/salary people, it is not true for people making $8.00 an hour in a manufacturing job.
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Originally Posted by MrRational
but too many haven't wanted to spend the $50 or $100 a year on latex.
The ONLY problem the US has is having produced far too many low/no skilled people
at the same time that the US has so dramatically reduced the number of low/no skilled jobs.
Aside from the direct effect this has on these people... it depreciates the value of labor in general.
The number one reason why Tom can't earn more for his time (even low/no skilled time)...
is because of the raw number of people available to compete with him for any job.
Making business pay Tom more won't fix this imbalance.
Making others in the 99% pay more in taxes to make up the difference only perpetuates the imbalance.
No, there are many low/no skill jobs still available. Come to Kansas! Don't expect to live very well on the $8.00 to $10.00 an hour for the work. So, you think if they are educated, they will do better? Got people graduating with a bachelor's degree and selling insurance and real estate, some working retail or not working at all. And, if you totally eliminate the low/no skill group, those manufacturing plants will close and they are already having troubling hiring workers at low wages thus, "Kansas loves illegals!" So, the no/low skill jobs are there but people can't survive on the wages unless they get some funding from public assistance. To me, that subsidizes the earnings of the companies from my pocket which is already running on empty.
A tariff is worth discussing but that is a far different thing from re-establishing the low/no skill
dirty manufacturing we have been discussing.
Looking for an absolute answer? Not biting.
Generally though... can you envision how people in those places might react if their work and entre
into a middle class existence was taken away by us? I can and few of the scenarios are appealing.
We may disagree here, but there are geopolitical issues either way you spin it. The current circumstances are an illusion that will collapse and cause war/depression/etc. even if you continue the way we're going. The US won't change its charter of being an empire anytime soon, but if the problems we all face are to be solved, I believe it can only be done by focusing on growing the middle class and removing the policies/activities that are moving the wealth up the ladder to the 1% (or out of the country).
In any case, the costs to get people skilled will occur gradually over time, but the long-term health of our economy can only be built through long-term solutions.
No, there are many low/no skill jobs still available. Come to Kansas! Don't expect to live very well on the $8.00 to $10.00 an hour for the work. So, you think if they are educated, they will do better? Got people graduating with a bachelor's degree and selling insurance and real estate, some working retail or not working at all. And, if you totally eliminate the low/no skill group, those manufacturing plants will close and they are already having troubling hiring workers at low wages thus, "Kansas loves illegals!" So, the no/low skill jobs are there but people can't survive on the wages unless they get some funding from public assistance. To me, that subsidizes the earnings of the companies from my pocket which is already running on empty.
Anyone criticizing how many low/no skill workers America should read this post above. How can we be a skilled nation when the nation is full of low/no skill jobs? Demand for skilled workers creates a demand in learning skills to fill those positions, which leads to a more skilled population.
Right now, we're stuck in a vaccuum of a lack of quality jobs and therefore, those who have went to school or have some experience are taking jobs that they're overqualified for. It's an economic tailspin.
...are an expense we are already paying and have been paying for DECADES.
Some have accepted the offer and some haven't.
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We may disagree here, but there are geopolitical issues either way you spin it.
The way I'm spinning it is that our problems are of our own doing and all based policy choices
that don't really work so well no matter how well meaning they were/are meant to be.
To go around the world and disrupt THEIR economy and social order
so we can find busy work for our unskilled? No. That's outrageous.
We need to collectively grow a pair and face our actual problem.
Hopefully we'll sort out a way to actually remedy it too.
Reagan Amnesty? Great Idea. Except for how it was implemented.
NAFTA? Great Idea. Except for how it was implemented.
We need to get past the sizzle and make the steak actually edible.
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I believe it can only be done by focusing on growing the middle class
and removing the policies/activities that are moving the wealth up the ladder to the 1%.
Those are both worthy and noble goals and aside from the "only be done by"...
I'll suggest that the best way to both re-grow the middle and cut into the top
--in the current and foreseeable future reality that we actually have to live in--
is to deeply cut back on those who are consuming so much more than they can produce.
The third of their number for whom there really may be jobs immediately gain a business
basis to be paid a LOT more than they are now this is turn will trickle up into advancement.
The idea is not that complicated.
Implementing it will be a public policy and political nightmare... but it won't cost us anything.
Or at least nothing more than we are already paying to not face up to our reality.
Last edited by MrRational; 07-11-2013 at 09:56 AM..
Its really depends on where you are and what your skill set is. Skill sets that a illegal can do now days isn't going to get you any where but personal recession. Slowly but surely they are importing your replacement ;so it to the welfare class you go. Politicians are only worried about two thing; revenues and staying in place. They know that they have the welfare class in control as providers.
So, the no/low skill jobs are there but people can't survive on the wages unless they get some funding from public assistance. To me, that subsidizes the earnings of the companies from my pocket which is already running on empty.
This is EXACTLY happening. And where does that government get the money for those subsidies and that assistance? The "govermnet" doesn't have any money. It comes from WE the working tax payers.
We that are working and paying taxes, are picking up the tab for what should be provided by these companies in the form of decent pay and wages. They get more and more profits, we get higher and higher taxes taken from our paychecks to keep it all going.
This is EXACTLY happening. And where does that government get the money for those subsidies and that assistance? The "govermnet" doesn't have any money. It comes from WE the working tax payers.
Wrong. Rulers may extract labor & goods from "we the working peons" directly (tribute, serfdom, unpaid work) or they may use an abstract concept of money to do the same much more efficiently. Rulers coin money since the times an abstract concept of money was invented and they are rather jealous of the competition. BTW, it took some serious bloodletting for the peons to get used to the idea of the paper money having value.
But that's all history, as of 2013 we the peons firmly believe that money has value. Thus, government-banker collective can create money out of thin air and make us "jump" in every way imaginable in order for us to get that money it freshly pulled from nowhere. Taxpayers don't create money, taxpayers don't make money, taxpayers work hard in order to get transfers of money created by the anointed caste living of our labors. We work because we believe that money has value and we need money to pay taxes, the money they create at will. Government and elites don't need your tax money, they need you working, serving them and producing stuff, they can create a pile of money to reach the Moon.
If so, why the elites prefer taxing you instead of creating money at will? I believe it's mostly because that direct money creation to pay government bills tends to evaporate faith in money rather fast. Money has value because you believe it has value Your belief is a direct result of centuries of cultural indoctrination, but it's rather a fragile belief.
Don't forget about social control value of taxing. Taxing forces you to work, you must work in order to get transfers of money in order to pay taxes in order to keep your house, just an example. If government just creates money to pay its bills, it's totally different "dynamic" since there is a possibility of you refusing to work even if government/bankers hold a freshly minted bill right in front of your nose. You believe that "money comes from WE the working tax payers", it's much more soothing to think of yourself as an unappreciated equal, but we are nothing but monkeys who jump high each time circus master throws bananas (money) at us. Play nice and remember that the master can use a whip any time in order to make you jump.
Last edited by RememberMee; 07-11-2013 at 11:10 PM..
LIFE forces you to work. If you lived alone in the wilderness you would be forced to work for food, clothing and shelter. You would be working 16 hour days just to survive. No Sundays off or cellphones or cable TV either. Instead of paying taxes, you could simply die when you became unable to fend for yourself.
As far as money having no value, you could ask to be paid in gold or food or whatever you believe has value, it would just be much less convenient.
Eventually someone has to pay. In Greece the citizens have told the government 'no way'; the politicians got filthy rich off of their free wheeling spending, so the politicians will be required to figure out how to unwind the debt. In America we have yet to see who is going to foot the bill. Washington says it will be you and me.....but at some point the people are going to say 'no more'. We didn't benefit (jobs) and we are not going to pay for your spending binge.
We're not there ....yet.
Ultimately, it's always the people who pay. The politicians and the elites who back them never do. That most definitely includes Greece. There has been a diaspora from Greece to other countries like Australia and Sweden due to the hardship there.
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Your belief is a direct result of centuries of cultural indoctrination, but it's rather a fragile belief. 
