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Employment in this country would skyrocket without foreign trade.
Baloney. Every item would cost us far more, which means we'd buy LESS stuff, that means the employees required to produce it would be less per household's purchases, so although we'd have a bigger piece of the domestic pie in terms of market share, the pie would have shrunk.
In the 1980s, a 19" Zenith color tv cost more, in real dollars, than my 32" HDTV. Made in the USA, that 32" would cost , in all liklihood, at least $1,000 more than what I paid. So I'd buy $1,000 LESS in other discretionary purchases.
The reason Americans buy so much stuff is they can..thanks to a global economy reducing prices on many discretionary items, at least relative to salary changes between generations.
The ignorant folks look at what we buy as stagnant.it isn't.price changes behavior.
Baloney. Every item would cost us far more, which means we'd buy LESS stuff, that means the employees required to produce it would be less per household's purchases, so although we'd have a bigger piece of the domestic pie in terms of market share, the pie would have shrunk.
In the 1980s, a 19" Zenith color tv cost more, in real dollars, than my 32" HDTV. Made in the USA, that 32" would cost , in all liklihood, at least $1,000 more than what I paid. So I'd buy $1,000 LESS in other discretionary purchases.
The reason Americans buy so much stuff is they can..thanks to a global economy reducing prices on many discretionary items, at least relative to salary changes between generations.
The ignorant folks look at what we buy as stagnant.it isn't.price changes behavior.
Yes things would cost more. That is a fact.
The tradeoff for that is that we would have a stronger economy and much less unemployment.
As a result we would have a stronger middle class and fewer disenfranchised poor people who require food stamps and other social services.
Simultaneously we would have increased government revenues due to more employment and reduced government borrowing and interest payments which in turn would pave the way for lower taxes in the future.
With more employment also comes benefits like lower crime rates and fewer social problems.
It is hard to believe that anyone is so ignorant that they would trade all of that in order to buy a cheap TV.
Baloney. Every item would cost us far more, which means we'd buy LESS stuff, that means the employees required to produce it would be less per household's purchases, so although we'd have a bigger piece of the domestic pie in terms of market share, the pie would have shrunk.
In the 1980s, a 19" Zenith color tv cost more, in real dollars, than my 32" HDTV. Made in the USA, that 32" would cost , in all liklihood, at least $1,000 more than what I paid. So I'd buy $1,000 LESS in other discretionary purchases.
The reason Americans buy so much stuff is they can..thanks to a global economy reducing prices on many discretionary items, at least relative to salary changes between generations.
The ignorant folks look at what we buy as stagnant.it isn't.price changes behavior.
I'm not so sure people would mind spending more, if their incomes had not stagnated for 30 years. This is what you seem to ignore... 30 years of offshoring has done no service for the AVERAGE American citizen. It has only benefited corps and their shareholders. I'm pretty sure all the displaced factory workers would not be lining up to thank the folks responsible for those cheap, breakable goods sold at Walmart. I'm sure they would have some other choice words however. What you continuously ignore... MOST AMERICANS DEPEND ON A JOB TO PROVIDE THE BULK OF THEIR INCOME...
America and it's populace has been sold out to the lowest bidders. With those exchanges went the prosperity that was once abundantly found in this nation. Now it's only found in the quarterly statements of mega corps, along with the dividends they pay. I would trade every share I own to see that spark restored in this nation.
What exactly are lower prices worth when such a large segment of the populace can't take advantage of them? Worse yet, why are so many now dependent on the government just to survive? So that's the brand of prosperity you're honestly trying to package, brand and sell here? I doubt many would be lining up to buy...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom
Whose ass are you pulling your statistics out of?
Employment in this country would skyrocket without foreign trade. In case the facts are at all important to you, the US has a gigantic trade deficit not a trade surplus. To make that fact worse the majority of our exports are raw materials.
I'm delighted to see that someone appreciates common sense, sound reasoning, and all based on principles of economics... Instead of politically driven garbage shoved in our faces by the PAC group with the most money to burn.
I thoroughly agree. The way things operate today... Anything that can be automated, is being automate. If it cannot be automated easily, it goes to China, India, or wherever. The more labor the widget requires, the more likely it will end up in the country with the lowest labor costs. If that work was done here, you'd see a huge influx in the demand for labor, along with all the social benefits described.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom
We send foreign countries scrap metal and they send us products.
GM currently has a 17% share of the American market. That compares to 60% in 1970. If everything purchased in the US was US made the number of factories and the suppliers which support those factories would expand exponentially.
Exactly why we get garbage in return. Anyone who has ever stepped foot on a factory floor knows the deficits of Chinese material. It's basically a wild guess as to what you're going to get. You could go to McMaster-Carr and buy certified aluminum or cold rolled steel, knowing full well what you are getting. If you buy the same thing from China, you have no idea what the composition is of the material...And this is what they are making our products out of. But try to explain that to some of these suits, who only care about next quarter's results, and their precious bonuses...
As for the auto makers... The impact felt by an uptick in demand would be difficult to gauge. The assembly process would require new hands, but with automation, the demand wouldn't be anything astronomical. Where there would really be a surge in the demand for labor is with the auto suppliers. Automation exists in these settings, but nothing on the scale of robotic assembly lines. Depending on the level of new car sales, Michigan could very well be one of the bright spots with regards to employment.
The issue going forward for the automakers today is one of consistency in demand. Things are quite unstable today, yet you would never know it with the fed injecting trillions of dollars into the economy to keep things afloat. Everyone is just waiting for the next trigger that will send this economy into recession mode again, and when it does, auto sales will plummet as always.
We've had recessions before, so this is nothing new. What is new is this level of uncertainty... All brought to you by the "live for next quarter" philosophy of those with control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom
The only people who benefit from a global economy are corporations and their stockholders who exploit cheap foreign labor to produce cheap products and sell them at high profits in US markets.
That is why we have the greatest disparity in wealth and income this country has ever seen. Would you like to see a chart showing the correlation between wealth disparity and the implementation of globalization?
Entirely agree. My 401k and investments have done great. At 27, I do not have to worry about money. I could say the same thing 3 years ago. The reality is, most of my money was earned through wages, which means the amount of liquid asset I have been able to amass is nothing compared to those who have, more or less, rigged the game in their favor. More than anything, I think we have a lot of puppets in my same position. They THINK they have benefited under the current system. They THINK 60K a year or +150K in assets makes them one of the big dogs. Haha, real money is laughing at them, while thanking them for the free lip service. If that were me, I'd be charging a steep surcharge for making myself look and sound so foolish...
The reason Americans buy so much stuff is they can..thanks to a global economy reducing prices on many discretionary items, at least relative to salary changes between generations.
Americans do buy a lot of crap... And that's what most of it is, crap. My dad has one pair of toe nail clippers that he purchased in 1977. It's lasted him all this time, along with the files and case. Care to guess how many I've been forced to buy in the past 10 years???
Well, I'm going on my 4th pair now. The 1st one lasted about a year. When you would try to use them, you had to be careful because the pivoting bolt would often come loose, which would result in a ripped nail... Hurts like hell. GARBAGE. 2nd pair didn't so much cut as it did pinch the nail. GARBAGE. 3rd pair was made in South Korea, so it was a step up in quality. Still felt like there was not enough leverage available, so you had to press too hard, which could result in slipping. Even still, I'm kinda sorry that I misplaced them.
So yes, Americans are ALWAYS consuming... To replace all the garbage products that weren't worth buying in the first place. When you buy American, you do generally pay more... But you get your moneys worth since the item is worth the price paid. I would NEVER accept those 50 cent nail clippers from China as a gift, knowing what I know today.
You seem to think high prices are a travesty... Not me, so long as the product is WORTH the higher price. American manufacturers pretty well have to compete on quality, because they would never win on price. This does not make them inefficient, or bad in the business sense. It just means they have a limitation placed on what they can compete on. Besides that, many are forced to produce quality, otherwise their ISO certifications would be in jeopardy. Chinese manufacturers carry some of the same certifications, but they generally don't seem to give a crap anyhow.
And let's not forget, people are far more materialistic these days. They underfund their retirements just so they can buy more crap. This type of behavior is not necessarily indicative, in of itself, of a healthy economy or society though.
I'm not so sure people would mind spending more, if their incomes had not stagnated for 30 years. This is what you seem to ignore... 30 years of offshoring has done no service for the AVERAGE American citizen. It has only benefited corps and their shareholders. I'm pretty sure all the displaced factory workers would not be lining up to thank the folks responsible for those cheap, breakable goods sold at Walmart. I'm sure they would have some other choice words however. What you continuously ignore... MOST AMERICANS DEPEND ON A JOB TO PROVIDE THE BULK OF THEIR INCOME...
America and it's populace has been sold out to the lowest bidders. With those exchanges went the prosperity that was once abundantly found in this nation. Now it's only found in the quarterly statements of mega corps, along with the dividends they pay. I would trade every share I own to see that spark restored in this nation.
What exactly are lower prices worth when such a large segment of the populace can't take advantage of them? Worse yet, why are so many now dependent on the government just to survive? So that's the brand of prosperity you're honestly trying to package, brand and sell here? I doubt many would be lining up to buy...
I'm delighted to see that someone appreciates common sense, sound reasoning, and all based on principles of economics... Instead of politically driven garbage shoved in our faces by the PAC group with the most money to burn.
I thoroughly agree. The way things operate today... Anything that can be automated, is being automate. If it cannot be automated easily, it goes to China, India, or wherever. The more labor the widget requires, the more likely it will end up in the country with the lowest labor costs. If that work was done here, you'd see a huge influx in the demand for labor, along with all the social benefits described.
Exactly why we get garbage in return. Anyone who has ever stepped foot on a factory floor knows the deficits of Chinese material. It's basically a wild guess as to what you're going to get. You could go to McMaster-Carr and buy certified aluminum or cold rolled steel, knowing full well what you are getting. If you buy the same thing from China, you have no idea what the composition is of the material...And this is what they are making our products out of. But try to explain that to some of these suits, who only care about next quarter's results, and their precious bonuses...
As for the auto makers... The impact felt by an uptick in demand would be difficult to gauge. The assembly process would require new hands, but with automation, the demand wouldn't be anything astronomical. Where there would really be a surge in the demand for labor is with the auto suppliers. Automation exists in these settings, but nothing on the scale of robotic assembly lines. Depending on the level of new car sales, Michigan could very well be one of the bright spots with regards to employment.
The issue going forward for the automakers today is one of consistency in demand. Things are quite unstable today, yet you would never know it with the fed injecting trillions of dollars into the economy to keep things afloat. Everyone is just waiting for the next trigger that will send this economy into recession mode again, and when it does, auto sales will plummet as always.
We've had recessions before, so this is nothing new. What is new is this level of uncertainty... All brought to you by the "live for next quarter" philosophy of those with control.
Entirely agree. My 401k and investments have done great. At 27, I do not have to worry about money. I could say the same thing 3 years ago. The reality is, most of my money was earned through wages, which means the amount of liquid asset I have been able to amass is nothing compared to those who have, more or less, rigged the game in their favor. More than anything, I think we have a lot of puppets in my same position. They THINK they have benefited under the current system. They THINK 60K a year or +150K in assets makes them one of the big dogs. Haha, real money is laughing at them, while thanking them for the free lip service. If that were me, I'd be charging a steep surcharge for making myself look and sound so foolish...
Automation, robotics, and the advancements of technology are going to present an interesting political problem going forward for sure.
Our ability to produce technology will displace workers at an exponentially increasing rate unless we adopt some kind of social policies that address the issue. When you combine that with the challenges of globalization, the future for the working class looks dismal.
Given the morality of the countries ruling class, it would not surprise me at all if they were not planning some kind of drastic population reduction for the lower classes.
I'm not so sure people would mind spending more, if their incomes had not stagnated for 30 years. This is what you seem to ignore... 30 years of offshoring has done no service for the AVERAGE American citizen. It has only benefited corps and their shareholders..
Nonsense, these great corp profits = a record DJ = tremendous 401k financial gains by tens of millions of Americans.
Nonsense, these great corp profits = a record DJ = tremendous 401k financial gains by tens of millions of Americans.
Next.
That's the best you could do?
Record dow? You hit a record dow every decade at the least, by virtue of inflation. That's like saying, my dollar is worth less than it was 5 years ago, the economy is doing spectacular! That says nothing about the health and stability of the economy. Never mind the fact that the fed has been pumping trillions into the economy just to keep the market afloat. If the economy is so rock solid, why is this still required? Why do we have record rates of Americans requiring food stamps? Why am I even given a dignified response to such a paltry and damn near insulting response?
So yes, if corporate stock buy back programs are your measure of a solid economy, I guess I could see where your coming from. Most of us aren't so naive...
Record Dow = Great 401ks = Great Retirement possibilities (1 month/year of mine will be at Spring Training in Scottsdale, Az!). For most people, that is, at minimum, their 2nd largest asset.
Can people stop with the absurd statement that the moving of manufacturing jobs to China has resulted in the downfall of the middle class? Assembling toaster ovens and toys is a low-skill, low-paying job and has never paid a middle-class salary. I knew a couple of people who did those types of manufacturing jobs in the mid 1970s in the US and they made minimum wage. The middle-class manufacturing jobs, like building 747's and satellites, are still in the US.
People who perpetuate this myth are just showing their total ignorance.
Amen. I had 2 uncles who worked for clothing manufacturers, both of whom never rose above lower middle class.just a buck or two above minimum wage. Out of more than a dozen in mfg, only 2 made decent incomes, even in the era directly after WWII, when the rest of the first rate manufacturing nations were still in ruins. They all got by, as 2 income families before that became mainstream.
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