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Question: Where do you propose that the funds come from to do this? Which of your taxes, do you want to double and triple to pay for this affordable education?
Raise retirement age for state employees in accord with life expectancies
State income tax increase on those making $150k+ (
$200k+ for households with children)
Question: Where do you propose that the funds come from to do this? Which of your taxes, do you want to double and triple to pay for this affordable education?
I'm completely fine having the recipient of education pay for it over time as is currently done.
The actual cost of education is also completely blown out of proportion. Sticker price has gone up dramatically, but what average students pay out of pocket? Yes, it's gone up but not nearly as much. I fell through a couple cracks on that one myself that have now been plugged in California by the Middle Class Scholarship. Basically, mom made more money and popped over the threshold at the same time tuition doubled due to cuts in state funding. So basically, I got really lucky there. Most people weren't actually paying the doubled tuition since Cal Grants just increased to cover much of the expense.
There's also ICR/IBR now which takes care of those problems where someone for whatever reason can't get a decent job. Generally that's for a short period of time. I went through a long period of under/unemployment after graduation. I was laid off from two jobs within two years of graduating, lots of part-time and temp work. ICR/IBR really helped there as my student loan payments are around $300/mo. Without it, I would have gone into delinquency a few times most likely.
Millennial here. Do not want a house, or kids, or an expensive car any time for the foreseeable future. The Great Recession pretty much sucked my youth dry and I have a lot of ME to live for. I'm not weighing myself down with anything for at least another decade. And I'll be almost 40 by then.
Millennial here. Do not want a house, or kids, or an expensive car any time for the foreseeable future. The Great Recession pretty much sucked my youth dry and I have a lot of ME to live for. I'm not weighing myself down with anything for at least another decade. And I'll be almost 40 by then.
Opportunity costs. Suppose wages and layoffs that benefit executives didn't exist to the same extent that it does today. Could you have been better off? If you had the resources to afford the luxury of hobbies or building a business needing higher creativity, what might you have invented for us?
Our nation's future is probably all the poorer for your [Millennials'] collective poverty.
I'm completely fine having the recipient of education pay for it over time as is currently done.
The actual cost of education is also completely blown out of proportion. Sticker price has gone up dramatically, but what average students pay out of pocket? Yes, it's gone up but not nearly as much. I fell through a couple cracks on that one myself that have now been plugged in California by the Middle Class Scholarship. Basically, mom made more money and popped over the threshold at the same time tuition doubled due to cuts in state funding. So basically, I got really lucky there. Most people weren't actually paying the doubled tuition since Cal Grants just increased to cover much of the expense.
There's also ICR/IBR now which takes care of those problems where someone for whatever reason can't get a decent job. Generally that's for a short period of time. I went through a long period of under/unemployment after graduation. I was laid off from two jobs within two years of graduating, lots of part-time and temp work. ICR/IBR really helped there as my student loan payments are around $300/mo. Without it, I would have gone into delinquency a few times most likely.
However,
1. There is no IBR or ICR for private loans
2. Tax consequences of any balance forgiven could be problematic (unlike public service loan forgiveness, this is not tax exempt.)
3. Even with IBR/ICR, loan payments can make it sufficiently more difficult to afford a given house that the economy is dragged down by widespread student debt. With an income of $77k as a single with a graduate degree, IBR payments could be as high as $500/month. This reduces the qualifiable mortgage amount by just over $100,000 if the loan is 30 year fixed at 4.375% APR. If we assume that the individual saved for 5 years to have a down payment, the cash flow loss of $500/month reduces the down payment by $30,000. Therefore, the combined effect is that even with IBR, the loan payments reduce the house that can be qualified for by about $130,000.
Opportunity costs. Suppose wages and layoffs that benefit executives didn't exist to the same extent that it does today. Could you have been better off? If you had the resources to afford the luxury of hobbies or building a business needing higher creativity, what might you have invented for us?
Our nation's future is probably all the poorer for your [Millennials'] collective poverty.
I was one of the millions of college graduates back in the great recession who couldn't find employment. The employment that I finally found barely covered rent and had no room for growth.
I am finally, just this month, starting my first job that actually pays a decent income and that I can grow a thriving career out of, three years after graduating college. And I had to move across the whole country to get it.
The early Millennials, like myself, are likely to face stunted careers for the rest of our lives. I was one of the lucky ones who escaped, but there are hundreds of thousands just like me still in just the state of Florida from which I came. So yes, I highly believe that if the millions of layoffs that occurred in our nation (to the benefit of executives) didn't occur then myself, and millions of others in my generation would have been better off.
What might I have invented? Well, without the ability to gain real work experience it is pretty hard to be innovative. No one invented anything without some knowledge of how the cogs turned. And only now are those opportunities to learn first hand opening up to me personally.
Our nations future is all the poorer because boomers and X'ers crashed our economy. Millennials had nothing to do with that. We are merely adjusting to the world that we aged into.
2. Tax consequences of any balance forgiven could be problematic (unlike public service loan forgiveness, this is not tax exempt.)
3. Even with IBR/ICR, loan payments can make it sufficiently more difficult to afford a given house that the economy is dragged down by widespread student debt. With an income of $77k as a single with a graduate degree, IBR payments could be as high as $500/month. This reduces the qualifiable mortgage amount by just over $100,000 if the loan is 30 year fixed at 4.375% APR. If we assume that the individual saved for 5 years to have a down payment, the cash flow loss of $500/month reduces the down payment by $30,000. Therefore, the combined effect is that even with IBR, the loan payments reduce the house that can be qualified for by about $130,000.
1) Generally not qualifying for federal loans means you're doing something stupid that you shouldn't be doing. There's always exceptions, of course, but it's a pretty good rule.
2) That is possibly a concern, if it becomes an issue it will probably be addressed similar to mortgage loan forgiveness so I'm not overly concerned with it.
3) Graduate degree is also going to put you in, what, generally the top 10% for earning capacity? Who exactly should be subsidizing the highest income earners? Working stiffs? F that. They can pay for their own lifestyles, imo, they don't need to be on public assistance. Plus, just being honest here, there's a lot of ways of getting a graduate degree without all that debt. Universities are always exchanging pieces of paper in exchange for indentured servants even if employers have really cut back in actually sending people to graduate school.
The $200,000 in loans I was looking at for law school was about half the reason I decided not to go. I'm still tossing the idea around, but unless the legal job market really improves I'm not taking on that debt. I mean, I have some connections since I work in the legal sector but between the debt, lost income while in law school, it's not all that appealing for what I could expect to make coming out. No biggie. It's not like the world really needs anymore lawyers anyway.
Our nation's future is all the poorer because boomers and X'ers crashed our economy. Millennials had nothing to do with that. We are merely adjusting to the world that we aged into.
The above is both overly simplistic and inaccurate. While I certainly agree that millennials were too young to be held responsible, I maintain that the crashing of the economy was pretty much inevitable because it was rooted partly in human nature (greed and short-term versus long-term thinking) and partly in the worldwide economic reality which ended the post World War II monopoly of the United States on industrial production.
Once easy credit became absurdly obtainable, then people availed themselves of it, much to their own detriment. It was a historical progression, in a sense, however much we may deplore it. I am 70 and I deplore it. (I didn't participate in it either). I also recognize that your generation has it harder, at least for the time being (and perhaps for the longer term also).
What I am saying is that generational finger pointing mostly masks the complexities of causes and the interrelatedness of world wide phenomena.
I was one of the millions of college graduates back in the great recession who couldn't find employment. The employment that I finally found barely covered rent and had no room for growth.
I am finally, just this month, starting my first job that actually pays a decent income and that I can grow a thriving career out of, three years after graduating college. And I had to move across the whole country to get it.
The early Millennials, like myself, are likely to face stunted careers for the rest of our lives. I was one of the lucky ones who escaped, but there are hundreds of thousands just like me still in just the state of Florida from which I came. So yes, I highly believe that if the millions of layoffs that occurred in our nation (to the benefit of executives) didn't occur then myself, and millions of others in my generation would have been better off.
What might I have invented? Well, without the ability to gain real work experience it is pretty hard to be innovative. No one invented anything without some knowledge of how the cogs turned. And only now are those opportunities to learn first hand opening up to me personally.
Our nations future is all the poorer because boomers and X'ers crashed our economy. Millennials had nothing to do with that. We are merely adjusting to the world that we aged into.
Yes! My point exactly: Without being afforded even the basics, the Millennial generation's opportunities to produce groundbreaking things in the future are severely stunted. Everybody loses in the long run, except for the people who killed the golden goose for the sake of cashing in their chips early.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider
The above is both overly simplistic and inaccurate. While I certainly agree that millennials were too young to be held responsible, I maintain that the crashing of the economy was pretty much inevitable because it was rooted partly in human nature (greed and short-term versus long-term thinking) and partly in the worldwide economic reality which ended the post World War II monopoly of the United States on industrial production.
Once easy credit became absurdly obtainable, then people availed themselves of it, much to their own detriment. It was a historical progression, in a sense, however much we may deplore it. I am 70 and I deplore it. (I didn't participate in it either). I also recognize that your generation has it harder, at least for the time being (and perhaps for the longer term also).
What I am saying is that generational finger pointing mostly masks the complexities of causes and the interrelatedness of world wide phenomena.
Yes to some extent, the world has lots of problems that were going to hit us sooner or later anyway. However all of these problems could have been reduced in intensity if the economic troubles were much less severe.
Of course just as you said, there are always exceptions to any sweeping generalization and stereotypes. But then the people who were in charge, and the people who were in positions to see and realize long term harm, and the people who had any chance, however small, to stop any wrongdoing were all people older than the Millennial Generation. So this is still at minimum a generational issue.
I do think that regardless of "fault," a broad backlash against the Baby Boomers and Generation X is counter-productive. For one thing, even if we could punish the people responsible, would it change anything? I think probably not much, although I suppose faith in our current society's ability to deliver justice could be restored by a bit.
Also, Baby Boomers and Gen X are still in a position to soften the blow and help with course corrections. They can still cast votes that hurt their own interests but help Millennials. They can participate in shareholder activism, even if it dings their retirement funds a bit. Ever notice how mass layoffs tend to be rewarded with boosted share prices? Who's going to put a stop that? It's not going to be the minimum wage workers and it's not even going to be the handful of new entrants into the professional level workforce, who are themselves increasingly at the mercy of those layoffs.
Last edited by DriveNotCommute; 09-09-2014 at 10:08 PM..
Reason: grammar typo. clarification.
The above is both overly simplistic and inaccurate. While I certainly agree that millennials were too young to be held responsible, I maintain that the crashing of the economy was pretty much inevitable because it was rooted partly in human nature (greed and short-term versus long-term thinking) and partly in the worldwide economic reality which ended the post World War II monopoly of the United States on industrial production.
Once easy credit became absurdly obtainable, then people availed themselves of it, much to their own detriment. It was a historical progression, in a sense, however much we may deplore it. I am 70 and I deplore it. (I didn't participate in it either). I also recognize that your generation has it harder, at least for the time being (and perhaps for the longer term also).
What I am saying is that generational finger pointing mostly masks the complexities of causes and the interrelatedness of world wide phenomena.
There's plenty of room for legitimately point fingers at past generations. They done f-ed up a lot of things, particularly in regards to ridiculous amounts of military and entitlement spending it didn't pay for resulting in $17+ trillion in debt.
Individually, however, the future of Millenials is pretty much entirely in the hands of Millenials. We have a known hand dealt that includes taking responsibility for the fiscal irresponsibility of the Boomers and Gen X. It's great and all to sit their and wax on about how there are no opportunities, but that isn't true. In constant dollars, 25-34 workers are making what they were in '95. That's not really any different. Across the board (except for women), that's true. Millenials aren't really suffering a lack of increased standard of living more than anyone else is. And while job prospects aren't great, it's also not like it's a PIIGS country here.
If someone wants to sit there and blame past generations for THEIR lack of success, I agree. It's ridiculous. On the other hand, I'm completely with anyone who is looking at things like Social Security/Medicare and crying foul. We're going to get screwed there anyway you slice it. Of course, we've also got 30 years to deal with that whereas our parents are getting pretty close to retirement age. I do think it's fair we that we are expected to take the brunt of that. It'd be really nice to not take all of it, however, and see some cuts and increased taxes now rather than only after the people who caused the problem are all dead.
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