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They knew it was going to happen and also knew they'd plead ignorance and get bailed out. And then make even more $$$.
Unlike in '29 this time they utilized many methods to cause a soft landing. They could have made the GD much less problematic by deficit spending, but it was politically impossible at the time.
At sufficiently low incomes, people with no available credit hardly have control over their spending.
That really seems like the liberal answer to all poor people problems, absolve them of all responsibility and enable options for a futher stranglehold into poverty.
Not a surprise. The middle class needs to grasp what it does have control over. A significant chunk of middle clas people aren't doing that. As Rick Newman talks about in his recent book:
At sufficiently low incomes, people with no available credit hardly have control over their spending.
If you are low income, and look to having credit as part of your financial strategy, you don't need to look further than that to know why you can't get ahead.
Interesting that two very conservative states, WY and ID, lead the pack with the smallest declines. Less than 1% in each instance.
These are relatively sparsely populated states with a dependence on natural resources. ND looked great, but will looking rather poorly as oil prices collapse.
But a family collectively earning 50K (25K a piece) would be considered middle class in many parts of the country.
That's why I think it's important to look beyond the numbers. Everyone has an opinion on what they should mean.
Middle class in my opinion... Money in the bank or invested, steady income, ability to roll with the economic punches. Many people have survived layoffs and crap jobs by finding secondary sources of income, often by using the internet.
Someone working full time making $25k/year is $12.01/hr. That's far from "middle class" in my book. I was making $12/hr in a cheap location in east TN. Even in a cheap area, you can't manage a decent lifestyle on that level of income.
Someone working full time making $25k/year is $12.01/hr. That's far from "middle class" in my book. I was making $12/hr in a cheap location in east TN. Even in a cheap area, you can't manage a decent lifestyle on that level of income.
It wasn't "middle class" before the recession, so I certainly wouldn't call it that today. But that seems to be the hock of hooey being fed these days. Many companies try to pay this wage, while offering lots of OT. It's been done in the oil industry for many entry level jobs for example. People like to talk about how much money you can make in a year working these jobs... Of course, this country is too stupid to handle simple math, so the discussion ends there.
If you wanted to categorize middle class by income, someone earning 12 or 14 bucks an hour can achieve a middle class income level with overtime. I know many who get by just fine. They would consider themselves working class though. I would at that wage level anyways. Thing is, there are salaried workers who, when accounting for the time spent at work, are doing no better.
It is very easy to find the signs of middle classes erosion.
Someone working full time making $25k/year is $12.01/hr. That's far from "middle class" in my book. I was making $12/hr in a cheap location in east TN. Even in a cheap area, you can't manage a decent lifestyle on that level of income.
I concur. I once worked for about that and my check after deductions was not much more than $300 a week. I was broke every week and had to dip into savings all the time. This is a relatively low COL area but you won't find an apartment for less than $800-1000 a month.
We can't even influence policy in our own country, how will you get other countries to agree to what you want?
WE need to get changes made here.
How we influence things over there is simple. We use our domestic tax code to change our import practices. We simply put pressure on imports to insist that the works making the stuff to be imported get paid US minimum wage or higher.
Are you suggesting that Wal-Mart's (and similar) depression of wages for millions of Americans...is somehow due to immigrants?
More like another part of the same trend. If you have an mine engineer that can't speak English, you don't have to pay him/her as much as one that does speak English, but good luck getting them to tell the heavy equipment operators how to operate their equipment safely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri
Economics is a very complex subject. One example is shown in the well known book "methland" - about why the midwest became druggie central. A short version goes like this.....
1. The area is very rich in good land - the people there reaped the benefit with high paying (often union) jons in agriculture (meat processing, etc.) and all the other things which accompany good productive land.
2. Large corporations came in and took over most ag operations. Wages were cut in 1/2, from $18 an hour to $9 an hour. Workers found that they had to work 2 or 3 jobs to make it.
3. Workers found that speed (meth) allowed them to work harder, faster and longer - and also gave them a well needed boost out of their depression. Then then found they could sell a little and quit one of their jobs.
4. Now the jobs went to Mexican immigrants - because no one else would do them for that price. After a couple years the Mexicans saw the local meth trade was booming and told their friends back in Mexico who started bringing TONS of it into the area....
Sure - that's just one example - but I fail to see how immigrants caused that. What seems to have caused it is the lack of our own corporations and businesses and policies in caring about PEOPLE.
Many (most?) of us have immigrants in our family just a couple generations back. One of my grandfathers came from Russia with $14 in his pocket and ended up being a manufacturer who employed many and sold to Sears. The other came from Italy and then ended up being the backbone of this country in the coal mines, carpentry trades, service businesses, etc.
These days our country is being built by immigrants from Asian, Latin America, etc - I do business with Google and it's rumored that a vast percentage of their employees are from Pakistan, India, etc. - everyone I deal with there seems to have a Pakistani name! Same with Apple - I mentor a guy who worked there on an internship - he's from Pakistan.
Without all this new energy, American would flounder.....as it often is in places without the spark of new blood.
4. "Now the jobs went to the Mexican immigrants because no one else would do them for that price." No immigrants no one willing to do it at that price. Then it doesn't get done or they get higher wages.
"Sure - that's just one example - but I fail to see how immigrants caused that. What seems to have caused it is the lack of our own corporations and businesses and policies in caring about PEOPLE." Business is full of people that only care about money. How to keep them from hurting everyone else? That is the point and justification of having a government. Limiting immigration limits competition for jobs and puts upwards pressure on wages. Or putting upwards pressure on foreign wages means less completion for the high paying jobs here.
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