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Old 10-19-2018, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,449,194 times
Reputation: 4831

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiteLiving View Post
that statement makes no sense



So what?



The resources are only wasted if the product isn't consumed. If that happens, what's been wasted is shareholder capital.



If societal needs aren't being met, somebody will identify it as a way to make money and will capitalize on it.
1. The base needs of a society aren't the focus of private corporations

2. It means expanding markets are not formed to meet more demands, but build more demand for new supply

3. That's not true. Even if they are consumed and GDP increases, this consumption falls into excess materialism for which the production of these goods/services could have been committed to actual necessary needs of society that are lacking (food, water, shelter, and anything that enhances their main functions)

4. At a much higher cost than would be necessary compared to production capacities our economic institutions are capable of. And even then not always, the demand base must be profitable for these somebodies to come and fulfill their demand.

Furthermore the way in which the demand is distorted should also be considered as a factor as most needs can be 'fulfilled' in different forms.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,449,194 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiteLiving View Post
boy, that sounds like a familiar structure, owner/manager with paid workers to do what they're paid to do. Hmm, where have a seen that before...
The significant difference is ownership and consent.

The workers remain the owners of the production facility, and they still control the output. Furthermore the capitalist requires consent of the workers, and the relationship is actually equal.

I'm not against capitalism being practiced, but it has to be voluntary. And if it is, I imagine it will be significantly less popular.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:23 PM
 
2,753 posts, read 1,790,187 times
Reputation: 4458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
1. The base needs of a society aren't the focus of private corporations

2. It means expanding markets are not formed to meet more demands, but build more demand for new supply

3. That's not true. Even if they are consumed and GDP increases, this consumption falls into excess materialism for which the production of these goods/services could have been committed to actual necessary needs of society that are lacking (food, water, shelter, and anything that enhances their main functions)

4. At a much higher cost than would be necessary compared to production capacities our economic institutions are capable of. And even then not always, the demand base must be profitable for these somebodies to come and fulfill their demand.

Furthermore the way in which the demand is distorted should also be considered as a factor as most needs can be 'fulfilled' in different forms.
1. yes they are, that's the easiest money to make is meeting basic needs.

2. What? If there's demand, someone will find a way to meet the demand. Again, that's how companies make money.

3. so now discretionary consumption isn't allowed in your utopian world? Who decides what's a necessity and what's a luxury?

4. That's your opinion. Without identifying this new "demand" it's impossible to state what the economics of production/distribution would be for a new market entrant vs. an existing entity.

The bolded statement appears to be nothing more than rambling as nothing before it has identified demand distortion.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:24 PM
 
2,753 posts, read 1,790,187 times
Reputation: 4458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
The significant difference is ownership and consent.

The workers remain the owners of the production facility, and they still control the output. Furthermore the capitalist requires consent of the workers, and the relationship is actually equal.

I'm not against capitalism being practiced, but it has to be voluntary. And if it is, I imagine it will be significantly less popular.
Workers don't have capital for ownership and they already give consent, been through this a thousand times already.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:28 PM
 
3,366 posts, read 1,610,015 times
Reputation: 1652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheepz View Post
Seriously. Rename the topic Winterfells marxist circle jerk thread.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Socialism is freedom, comrade.
Disagree.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:29 PM
 
3,366 posts, read 1,610,015 times
Reputation: 1652
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiteLiving View Post
Workers don't have capital for ownership and they already give consent, been through this a thousand times already.
And if your wasted effort is continued, you will go through it eternally.
That poster is irrationally and unreasonably dedicated to its own contrived opinions......and posting walls of nonsense ramblings.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,449,194 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiteLiving View Post
Workers don't have capital for ownership and they already give consent, been through this a thousand times already.
And I’ve explained why this is false a thousand times.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:36 PM
 
2,753 posts, read 1,790,187 times
Reputation: 4458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
And I’ve explained why this is false a thousand times.
your explanation was based on theory, not reality, so it doesn't work
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:39 PM
 
3,366 posts, read 1,610,015 times
Reputation: 1652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
And I’ve explained why this is false a thousand times.
No you haven't. Your opinion does not a fact make. You've definitely posted tons upon tons of BS a thousand times, I'll give you that.
You are just absolutely terrible at actually selling your BS though.

Last edited by Jimbo302; 10-19-2018 at 03:51 PM..
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
15,507 posts, read 6,449,194 times
Reputation: 4831
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuiteLiving View Post
1. yes they are, that's the easiest money to make is meeting basic needs.

2. What? If there's demand, someone will find a way to meet the demand. Again, that's how companies make money.

3. so now discretionary consumption isn't allowed in your utopian world? Who decides what's a necessity and what's a luxury?

4. That's your opinion. Without identifying this new "demand" it's impossible to state what the economics of production/distribution would be for a new market entrant vs. an existing entity.

The bolded statement appears to be nothing more than rambling as nothing before it has identified demand distortion.
1. No, because to meet those demands the goods must be produced to fulfill those demands. What corporations produce is what can be produced to the highest extent relative to its cost value. For that the demand base needs to be profitable enough, and secondly, the product needs to be marketed towards that segment of the demand

2. No, companies make money from attracting consumers, not serving them

3. Not at all, but production capacities would be used to maintain necessary goods and services for the community if the end goal wasn’t personal profit

4. The new demand doesn’t have to be for an entirely new market (though it could be), but it is most likely targeted at demands that have already been met so that they are enhanced (or distorted enough) to create repeat consumption (a waste invterms of labor productivity).

5. Demand distortion is creating an environment that goods and services that are not wanted or needed would be consumed at a cost.
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