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With the massive amount of money printing and (hyper) inflation, we are getting closer to that scenario.
Ahh the ole "right around the corner forever" technique of being a great prognosticator. This allows the following wonderfully accurate economic prediction =
- The stock market will go up.
- The stock market will go down.
Mark my words everyone, and come back in a few years to see how well I foretell the future.
If this is free market, there should be no guarantees, speculations in stocks, and housing will go up. You have to assess/take your own risks. Not everyone who invests in any sector at any given time should make out fabulously wealthy. In fact, most should not. It should be like a poker table. For everyone who gains money, at least equal or more persons have to lose their money.
Otherwise its all money printing, and just throwing it to wherever the controllers like. Its a command economy but its private bankers in control.
Nope. It is not a zero sum game. Wealth creation and expansion of the economy absolutely exists.
Nope. It is not a zero sum game. Wealth creation and expansion of the economy absolutely exists.
Its a zero sum game, unless you playing a board game. We live on a finite planet with finite resources/assets.
Wealth creation by the govt can only be for benefitting society as a whole, and not propping up private individual's failed speculations. Govt/taxpayers should control money supply. Bankers do not need to be the middle man who decides who gets what and then charge everyone. You can just literally give it out like stimulus. The populace will spend it, save it, speculate where they want it.
Expansion of the economy? Expansion by just increasing the price of the same thing over and over again is just increasing the nominal denomination of the total currency floating around out there. There is no value/utility in it though.
Its a zero sum game, unless you playing a board game. We live on a finite planet with finite resources/assets.
Wealth creation by the govt can only be for benefitting society as a whole, and not propping up private individual's failed speculations. Govt/taxpayers should control money supply. Bankers do not need to be the middle man who decides who gets what and then charge everyone. You can just literally give it out like stimulus. The populace will spend it, save it, speculate where they want it.
Expansion of the economy? Expansion by just increasing the price of the same thing over and over again is just increasing the nominal denomination of the total currency floating around out there. There is no value/utility in it though.
Are you aware that many Americans rely on the stock market as a key component of their private pension plans (401k, 403b, 457, IRA, Roth, etc.)? Public pension plans are also largely tied to the stock market. Certainly an expectation that most will lose isn't a widely held belief by most financial professionals, our government, banks, or the average person. The purpose is to invest in the companies, domestic and foreign (ADRs), that employ our people and provide essential goods and services needed and grow our economy at the same time. We are not an agrarian and small shop-based economy anymore, nor are any other 1st world economies. We, as a nation, cannot produce automobiles, aircraft, a national infrastructure of energy distribution, and a modern healthcare system, etc., to serve our population without the existence of companies, large, small, and in between. Likewise, a central bank is essential to provide the liquidity and backing to stabilize markets. The Fed has its flaws but that is not justification for its elimination. In this particular instance, they were late to the game and blinded by the misbelief floated around that the supply constraints, labor shortage, and work-from-home movement tied to the pandemic were all transitory. What is transitory? They seemingly initially thought it was 2 or 3 quarters when it may play out that it is 3 or more years or perhaps a paradigm shift has already occurred in the labor force and the interest rate increases won't have the desired expected effect. Only time will tell.
Are you aware that many Americans rely on the stock market as a key component of their private pension plans (401k, 403b, 457, IRA, Roth, etc.)? Public pension plans are also largely tied to the stock market. Certainly an expectation that most will lose isn't a widely held belief by most financial professionals, our government, banks, or the average person. The purpose is to invest in the companies, domestic and foreign (ADRs), that employ our people and provide essential goods and services needed and grow our economy at the same time. We are not an agrarian and small shop-based economy anymore, nor are any other 1st world economies. We, as a nation, cannot produce automobiles, aircraft, a national infrastructure of energy distribution, and a modern healthcare system, etc., to serve our population without the existence of companies, large, small, and in between. Likewise, a central bank is essential to provide the liquidity and backing to stabilize markets. The Fed has its flaws but that is not justification for its elimination. In this particular instance, they were late to the game and blinded by the misbelief floated around that the supply constraints, labor shortage, and work-from-home movement tied to the pandemic were all transitory. What is transitory? They seemingly initially thought it was 2 or 3 quarters when it may play out that it is 3 or more years or perhaps a paradigm shift has already occurred in the labor force and the interest rate increases won't have the desired expected effect. Only time will tell.
Pension plans are private endeavors. If you rely on it for retirement, well, that is the risk you take. If we as a society want to ensure people's retirement we can create universal basic income for those that have contributed to our nation as upstanding citizens. This way the retirees dont lose. Taxpayer do not need to create a handful of billionaires, and ensure their kids inherit cushy careers. If you want to enter business of handling people's retirement savings, you go get as many retirees to sign on as you can, and if you must, then guarantee their retirements with your own family's savings. If you fail, you fail, and thats your rep down the toilet.
Nothing wrong with small shops, and everyone for the most part growing their own food. Self sufficiency is good. At the end of the day we all work for cash, to spend on food. If I can bypass the whole step of working, and make my own food, how can I not be better off.
You can manufacture bespoke anything actually. Are you telling me, that if I can afford to put myself into debt through a middle man to purchase some item from a different middle man, who gets from another middle man; all whom wish to make a profit, I wont be able to afford going directly to manufacturer cutting out middle men? Even if I borrowed, probably less price.
LOL if we have a central bank, why not just let it be a bank for everyone? I should be able to deposit money into a checking account, get a safety deposit box, some ATMs everywhere. I should be able to get a loan too. The govt already insures or basically guarantees deposit at private banks. It should be the private bank that does that with the shareholder's own savings. That be the only way they should be able to entice anyone to open an account. The central bank we have now is basically an unlimited piggy bank for private bankers.
Pension plans are private endeavors. If you rely on it for retirement, well, that is the risk you take. If we as a society want to ensure people's retirement we can create universal basic income for those that have contributed to our nation as upstanding citizens. This way the retirees dont lose. Taxpayer do not need to create a handful of billionaires, and ensure their kids inherit cushy careers. If you want to enter business of handling people's retirement savings, you go get as many retirees to sign on as you can, and if you must, then guarantee their retirements with your own family's savings. If you fail, you fail, and thats your rep down the toilet.
Nothing wrong with small shops, and everyone for the most part growing their own food. Self sufficiency is good. At the end of the day we all work for cash, to spend on food. If I can bypass the whole step of working, and make my own food, how can I not be better off.
You can manufacture bespoke anything actually. Are you telling me, that if I can afford to put myself into debt through a middle man to purchase some item from a different middle man, who gets from another middle man; all whom wish to make a profit, I wont be able to afford going directly to manufacturer cutting out middle men? Even if I borrowed, probably less price.
LOL if we have a central bank, why not just let it be a bank for everyone? I should be able to deposit money into a checking account, get a safety deposit box, some ATMs everywhere. I should be able to get a loan too. The govt already insures or basically guarantees deposit at private banks. It should be the private bank that does that with the shareholder's own savings. That be the only way they should be able to entice anyone to open an account. The central bank we have now is basically an unlimited piggy bank for private bankers.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a central bank does. There is a lot of good material on the role of central banks out there. One role that is not part of a central bank's purpose is retail banking for individuals. Are you aware that there are banks that do not deal with individuals at all?
But but but before the creation of the FED there was "recessions"
Actually, before the Fed there were Panics, which the Fed has largely been successful in mitigating. Recession is the normal business cycle. A Panic is when something like Credit Suisse goes down....and then anyone that had Credit Suisse related bonds as part of their collateral goes down....in turn dragging behind banks that eventually had nothing to do with the original Credit Suisse. You'd have massive implosions of the bank industry....and they'd happen every few years. As you can imagine, even if you had money in the bank and then went to go pay payroll and your bank had gone bust overnight....that could be disastrous to main street.
Pension plans are private endeavors. If you rely on it for retirement, well, that is the risk you take. If we as a society want to ensure people's retirement we can create universal basic income for those that have contributed to our nation as upstanding citizens. This way the retirees dont lose. Taxpayer do not need to create a handful of billionaires, and ensure their kids inherit cushy careers. If you want to enter business of handling people's retirement savings, you go get as many retirees to sign on as you can, and if you must, then guarantee their retirements with your own family's savings. If you fail, you fail, and thats your rep down the toilet.
Nothing wrong with small shops, and everyone for the most part growing their own food. Self sufficiency is good. At the end of the day we all work for cash, to spend on food. If I can bypass the whole step of working, and make my own food, how can I not be better off.
You can manufacture bespoke anything actually. Are you telling me, that if I can afford to put myself into debt through a middle man to purchase some item from a different middle man, who gets from another middle man; all whom wish to make a profit, I wont be able to afford going directly to manufacturer cutting out middle men? Even if I borrowed, probably less price.
LOL if we have a central bank, why not just let it be a bank for everyone? I should be able to deposit money into a checking account, get a safety deposit box, some ATMs everywhere. I should be able to get a loan too. The govt already insures or basically guarantees deposit at private banks. It should be the private bank that does that with the shareholder's own savings. That be the only way they should be able to entice anyone to open an account. The central bank we have now is basically an unlimited piggy bank for private bankers.
Most pensions are not private endeavors and can be relied on for retirement. Universal Basic income has not worked when tried - too many lose incentive to work and most retirees definitely would lose if reduced to UBI level.
Growing your own food as a cost cutting measure only works where you can grow stuff year round and very much limits what you can eat. Is everyone supposed to be a vegetarian, eating only what they can grow - how much can you grow on a condo porch. It is pure nonsense - there has been specialization in tasks for at least the last 10,000 years.
The rest is just idiocy - pushing everything to one source would increase costs not reduce them because no competition to manage costs.
Pension plans are private endeavors. If you rely on it for retirement, well, that is the risk you take. If we as a society want to ensure people's retirement we can create universal basic income for those that have contributed to our nation as upstanding citizens. This way the retirees dont lose. Taxpayer do not need to create a handful of billionaires, and ensure their kids inherit cushy careers. If you want to enter business of handling people's retirement savings, you go get as many retirees to sign on as you can, and if you must, then guarantee their retirements with your own family's savings. If you fail, you fail, and thats your rep down the toilet.
Your first sentence (bolded) is patently false. The rest is gibberish.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, roughly 6,000 public sector retirement systems exist in the U.S. Some of the 299 state-administered plans and 5,977 locally-administered plans date back to the 19th century and each has evolved independently. Collectively, these plans have:
$4.5 trillion in assets
14.7 million active (working) members and 11.2 million retirees
$323 billion in benefit distributions annually
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a central bank does. There is a lot of good material on the role of central banks out there. One role that is not part of a central bank's purpose is retail banking for individuals. Are you aware that there are banks that do not deal with individuals at all?
I not write it is the role of central banks is to provide retail banking to individuals. I stated maybe they should start doing that. I am not sure how banks not dealing with individuals relates to my post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77
Actually, before the Fed there were Panics, which the Fed has largely been successful in mitigating. Recession is the normal business cycle. A Panic is when something like Credit Suisse goes down....and then anyone that had Credit Suisse related bonds as part of their collateral goes down....in turn dragging behind banks that eventually had nothing to do with the original Credit Suisse. You'd have massive implosions of the bank industry....and they'd happen every few years. As you can imagine, even if you had money in the bank and then went to go pay payroll and your bank had gone bust overnight....that could be disastrous to main street.
I wish someone responded to the post I made, a few pages back in this thread, about what our economy was even like back then. A panic you say or is it more like trumped up caricatures for campaigns and domestic propaganda for special interest groups to get what they wanted? Propaganda and special interest groups did exist even back in the 1800s.
Who bought bonds back then anyways besides the wealthy? There was no internet. You literally had to go to a place, and get a piece of paper. How anyone know the paper is not forgeries? The anti-counterfeiting tech was not exactly on par. How many people actually had bank accounts? It probably be extremely inconvenient to have to use a bank. You'd have to get on your mule and ride like 30 miles into town constantly. If you owned a store, you probably lived above it. You basically served as your own security guard. Couldnt you just guard your own money. In fact a lot of general stores did in fact loan money. I alluded to all this in my previous post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddeemo
Most pensions are not private endeavors and can be relied on for retirement. Universal Basic income has not worked when tried - too many lose incentive to work and most retirees definitely would lose if reduced to UBI level.
Growing your own food as a cost cutting measure only works where you can grow stuff year round and very much limits what you can eat. Is everyone supposed to be a vegetarian, eating only what they can grow - how much can you grow on a condo porch. It is pure nonsense - there has been specialization in tasks for at least the last 10,000 years.
The rest is just idiocy - pushing everything to one source would increase costs not reduce them because no competition to manage costs.
QE, Zirp bailouts or whatever its called is essentially UBI for the finance industry. The monikers for these financial "tools" seems to change constantly.
What I mean by the growing own food bit is more people should be farmers. And we once were mostly farmers. Do you really think we can base our economy on the FRIEND model (Finance, RE, Insurance, Entertainment, Networking, Debt). We hardly have any manufacturing anymore as well. You are right, we have crammed ourselves into condos with tiny porches in a few megalopolises. We work as babysitters (teachers), sports coaches, salesman, entertainers, line cooks and store clerks. Our doctors, and tech people are coming from overseas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeddy
Your first sentence (bolded) is patently false. The rest is gibberish.
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, roughly 6,000 public sector retirement systems exist in the U.S. Some of the 299 state-administered plans and 5,977 locally-administered plans date back to the 19th century and each has evolved independently. Collectively, these plans have:
$4.5 trillion in assets
14.7 million active (working) members and 11.2 million retirees
$323 billion in benefit distributions annually
Public sector plans are basically just private endeavors because that is HOW THEY ARE FUNDING IT. They work with private sector businesses and depend on them to raise the money. Essentially the money is pooled together and another Govt worker decides which of her private sector relatives gets to play around with it. Just because it is pooled together based on what Govt job you have, or which State's Govt you work for does not change that.
Ok so the Govt is guaranteeing it. But the Govt should not be lying to public's face. If the Govt employee pension only took money from taxpayers then I will say its not a private endeavor. But then there is no way the Govt will be able to afford the deals they made with the workers.
I believe I mentioned this before; why not just create the money and give it to the workers? Why need to middle men, or to "stabilize the market", before forking it over to the Govt workers?
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