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I heard on a radio talk show the other day, when this very subject was the topic, a caller said that maybe the oil companies (Exxon-Mobil, Conoco-Philips, Chevron, etc.) should take some of their recent profits and make loans to the Big Three. Sounds good to me. After all, if it wasn't for the large SUV and truck market that domestic auto makers were at the forefront of in the last 15 yrs or so, then the oil companies profits would not have been so great!
I really don't have a problem with the Big Three asking for some help from the gov't. But I just hope that something innovative is done this time around with ALOT of oversight from Congress. A simple cash injection from taxpayer money alone is not going to help in the long run. These companies need better management and marketing.
Trying to bust the unions is not the way to go either. That will just lead to strikes and put the nails in the coffin. I for one think that MORE unionization is needed in this country. I can tell you from experience that non-union manufacturing plants are just as likely to shut down as union facilities and get outsourced. If there were NO unions in this country at all the corporations would STILL send jobs to China and India!! Also, the talk about labor costs to build cars at union plants being so much a higher part of the cost of the vehicle is greatly exaggerated. Why do non-union Lexus and Infinitis cost so much? They are, after all, just loaded and rebadged Toyotas and Nissans! And the Lincolns and Cadillacs that are built in Mexico at non-union plants don't cost any less!
Last edited by roncorey1; 11-15-2008 at 02:32 AM..
Reason: spelling, grammar
I heard on a radio talk show the other day, when this very subject was the topic, a caller said that maybe the oil companies (Exxon-Mobil, Conoco-Philips, Chevron, etc.) should take some of their recent profits and make loans to the Big Three. Sounds good to me. After all, if it wasn't for the large SUV's and truck market that domestic auto makers were at the forefront of in the last 15 yrs or so, then the oil companies profits would not have been so great!
I really don't have a problem with the Big Three asking for some help from the gov't. But I just hope that something innovative is done this time around with ALOT of oversight from Congress. A simple cash injection from taxpayer money alone is not going to help in the long run. These companies need better management and marketing.
Trying to bust the unions is not the way to go either. That will just lead to strikes and put the nails in the coffin. I for one think that MORE unionization is needed in this country. I can tell you from experience that non-union manufacturing plants are just as likely to shut down as union facilities and get outsourced. If there were NO unions in this country at all the corporations would STILL send jobs to China and India!! Also, the talk about labor costs to build cars at union plants being do much a higher part of the cost of the vehicle is greatly exaggerated. Why do non-union Lexus and Infinitis cost so much? They are, after all, just loaded and rebadged Toyotas and Nissans! And the Lincolns and Cadillacs that are built in Mexico at non-union plants don't cost any less!
this country will be ruined if it becomes socialist. you don't make one successful business pay for the running of a bad business. there is no proof that if they even got the money that they would succeed and that it would not be a bottomless money pit. now is not the right time to be selling new cars when people are starting to have financial trouble and the layoffs are starting. maybe creating another huge layer of debt from americans is not the way to go in our current financial situation. again, this is another government plan to benefit a few at the cost of many, like all the bailouts have been so far.
this country will be ruined if it becomes socialist. you don't make one successful business pay for the running of a bad business. there is no proof that if they even got the money that they would succeed and that it would not be a bottomless money pit. now is not the right time to be selling new cars when people are starting to have financial trouble and the layoffs are starting. maybe creating another huge layer of debt from americans is not the way to go in our current financial situation. again, this is another government plan to benefit a few at the cost of many, like all the bailouts have been so far.
I never suggested that the government "make" the oil companies loan money. That couldn't be done anyway. I was just suggesting that it was a good idea if companies on firm financial grounds loan money to a company that is very interdependent on each others industries. Sounds like a capitalist idea to me NOT a socialist one!
I never suggested that the government "make" the oil companies loan money. That couldn't be done anyway. I was just suggesting that it was a good idea if companies on firm financial grounds loan money to a company that is very interdependent on each others industries. Sounds like a capitalist idea to me NOT a socialist one!
oil companies would know nothing about the auto market so you risk having a badly run company taking down a successful company. no smart business would ever invest in a bad business. that is not capitalism at its best!
why don't they get the loan from a foreign auto company if someone believes in their product or perhaps be sold to a foreign auto company where they could actually make a profit. what makes them so special that taxpayers should bail them out? it is not as if this is the 1st time they have needed a bailout. it does not look like most americans are going to be in the position to be buying new cars for a while anyhow.
Those who say that GM should die are ignoring economic reality. The reality is that if GM declares bankruptcy 2.5 million jobs will be lost (cnnmoney.com, November 13, 2008). This includes not only the active GM employees, but also parts suppliers, dealers, and merchants in the cities and towns where GM plants are located. Moreover, it is estimated that a GM bankruptcy would result in the loss of $175 billion in wages and tax revenue (nytimes.com 11/13/08).
The more sensible approach is to establish a federal oversight board to ensure that the money is spent properly and not on "golden parachutes," bonuses, stock options, and corporate aquisitions. One of the conditions to receiving the money should be that the current board of directors and corporate officers who have run the company into the ground resign.
The oversight board should restructure GM to create a leaner, more efficient company and should use the bailout funds to retool the company to produce "greener" more fuel efficient vehicles; vehicles the public will want in the future.
Those who say that GM should die are ignoring economic reality. The reality is that if GM declares bankruptcy 2.5 million jobs will be lost (cnnmoney.com, November 13, 2008). This includes not only the active GM employees, but also parts suppliers, dealers, and merchants in the cities and towns where GM plants are located. Moreover, it is estimated that a GM bankruptcy would result in the loss of $175 billion in wages and tax revenue (nytimes.com 11/13/08).
The more sensible approach is to establish a federal oversight board to ensure that the money is spent properly and not on "golden parachutes," bonuses, stock options, and corporate aquisitions. One of the conditions to receiving the money should be that the current board of directors and corporate officers who have run the company into the ground resign.
The oversight board should restructure GM to create a leaner, more efficient company and should use the bailout funds to retool the company to produce "greener" more fuel efficient vehicles; vehicles the public will want in the future.
A structured bankruptcy might do that..shed the debt and the unions.
They have too much of a $$$ burden to move forward with a bailout.
Yeah...bust the union...that'll be great...then move all the plants to Texas and hire illegal aliens through a temp service at $10/hr to build your next Silverado!
Apparently you don't know much about the UAW. You should check their website.
I worked in two different plants that supplied the domestic auto industry. They were both non-union. That didn't stop them from hiring temps, outsourcing to Mexico and China, and laying off. My point is that the unions aren't the problem. They shouldn't be used as a scapegoat for larger issues.
And think about this: Do you REALLY think, that if all the Nissan, Hyundai, Toyota, and BMW plants in the U.S. were to unionize, that they would lose money and have to file bankruptcy???
Yeah...bust the union...that'll be great...then move all the plants to Texas and hire illegal aliens through a temp service at $10/hr to build your next Silverado!
Apparently you don't know much about the UAW. You should check their website.
I worked in two different plants that supplied the domestic auto industry. They were both non-union. That didn't stop them from hiring temps, outsourcing to Mexico and China, and laying off. My point is that the unions aren't the problem. They shouldn't be used as a scapegoat for larger issues.
And think about this: Do you REALLY think, that if all the Nissan, Hyundai, Toyota, and BMW plants in the U.S. were to unionize, that they would lose money and have to file bankruptcy???
All I'm pointing out is that the union and it's retirees are a pretty big burden for the automakers to be carrying in the state they are in.
And think about this: Do you REALLY think, that if all the Nissan, Hyundai, Toyota, and BMW plants in the U.S. were to unionize, that they would lose money and have to file bankruptcy???
Let me ask you this, if you continued to have kids every year of your life for 50 years and at the same time have to support ALL of them for their whole life would you go bankrupt ? Eventually yes without a doubt... And if all of the sudden your income stopped due to economic reasons, then what ????
If all the rest of the world auto makers had to deal with the UAW and all the bullsh*t money sucking ways then yes ALL of them would be in very similar situations. Supporting a half million people and their families with checks and benefits puts an aweful lot of financial pressure on the manufacturing cost process when the rest of the world doesn't have to worry about it ! No arguing that...
Unions are not a scapegoat for a larger problem they are a big part of the larger problem ! I come from a family of union workers all around and I don't agree with union ways and needless to say not to many of my family union members do either any more. They see the writing on the wall !
And last I looked, the Mexican non-union built Escalade EXT and Avalanche sticker prices were just as expensive as their U.S. union made counterparts!! And how come the Acuras, Lexuses, and Infinitis that are mostly just tricked- out and rebadged Hondas, Toyotas, and Nissans cost so darn much!
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Bailout GM
