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I don't recall a time growing up when millions of people bought homes they couldn't afford. Like now. We had to have 20% down to get a loan. I don't recall people having credit card debt that they couldn't pay off in their lifetime without intervention. I don't remember newlyweds going to the Caribbean for honeymoons. You didn't see teenagers driving big luxury cars. Those kids didn't require every toy in the store in order to be content, we went outside and played using our imaginations. Apple iPhones for everyone! Our first TV cost $125 new in 1970 and we still have it. It works and we use it in our exercise area. Spending junkie? Not! The young people in my neighborhood have four or five vehicles - two drivers. Those my age have two. The youngsters have Lexus and Volvo, the oldsters have Kias and Chevys. I see their kids with full football gear, baseball gear, new bikes every Christmas, motorized scooters (yeah they're fat) a baketball hoop in every driveway (Heaven forbid they would have to walk a block to the park down the street to play), hockey nets, blah, blah, blah. It's no wonder they're all in more debt than they can handle, they don't know the meaning of fiscal responsibility.
Regardless, Boomers didn't have it easier, you just want to think they did. What they did, instead of complaining about how good their parents had it and blaming them for the rough times (in case you missed the 80's - read some history), they went out and worked their butts off so they'd have a decent life.
For all of you who don't know it the "best" time economically was the 50's, and the Boomers were all kids then.
When I look back at my parents, I greatly honor them but wish they had realized that its possible to protect too much. My dad grew up on a farm and jointed the navy at 16 to get away. My mom and her sister were raised my my grandmother after being dumped my my grandfather and she did it by working at a grocery store right next to Hollywood. My parents lived through depression and war and wanted me, their child, to know nothing of that. Life doesn't work that way. I remember all the anger and fear of the 60's when I was a teen, and the life hits you in the face feeling when I went out into the world.
My parents didn't have credit cards. They saved. When they had enough, they bought. But there was never a thing of the moment buy. They had a house, took vacations and went out to dinner. But it was not a mcmansion, there was one good vacation a year, and dinner out was a treat (and aside from Big Boy was not fast food).
When I discovered Life I tried but didn't find that magic carpet that allowed some of my generation to be yuppies and do their best to maintain and better the standard they grew up in. With them it was credit cards and hard work, and lots of debt to make sure you show the neighbors you can buy as much as they can. They didn't get there without work but somehow the 50's idea of keeping up with the Joanses got out of hand.
But there are plenty of my generation who did not catch that magic carpet and have never come anywhere near the standard mom and dad knew. Who never found that great job for life that dad had. Who learned the art of making dinner from whats there.... the yuppies are the visible of my generation but there are many more who didn't get that far.
What brought us to this was all the generations... boomer, x, y, z, who forgot that old true adage that if it looks too good to be true it probably is. Who bought houses on loans that were based on hope that in a few years the income would rise to meet the morgage, who lived off credit and let it drain what might have made the difference and who are shaking their heads wondering how things got this way. The hope I have is that this is the universes big balancing act and that those who are sitting there wondering what disastor tomorrow will bring will wake up to the reality that nothing is free and what you plan for and work for comes with the satisfaction that you earned it and that it can really be called yours.
btw, I have a debit card and don't want a credit card.
From my perspective it seems like the 80s to 90s were pretty good times. My parents bought their first home in Westchester NY for 80K. We lived off one income, had a couple vacations per year, and 2 cars. My dad worked from 8-5 and was home by 5:30. We had dinner at 6 every night together. We lived in the same home for 22 years. Which was sold for 370K in 2003. Employment was stable so you could stay in your home for a long period of time and enjoy a healthy appreciation on your home. To me that seems like the American Dream.
For me, I graduated in 2001 with student loan debt. (My parents never had that and my dad had a PhD). In 7 years I've already experienced a couple layoffs. Today there's so much uncertainty with layoffs always on the horizon every 6 months, house prices out of whack, and wages stagnating. I might be looking at the 80s with rose colored glasses since it was my childhood, but it seemed like the good old days.
Housing and spending junkies?
I don't recall a time growing up when millions of people bought homes they couldn't afford. Like now. We had to have 20% down to get a loan. I don't recall people having credit card debt that they couldn't pay off in their lifetime without intervention.
Again you don't remember those things because for example very few had card cards. Not because they didn't want them, but because they weren't widespread at that point. Lending standards were different back then because the banks largely kept the loans on their books. But policies changed (who do you think.....had a part in that...).
Regardless, I never claimed boomers had a problem with debt. I claimed they didn't save (and hence spent) their income away. Until their grandparents who typically saved a lot. The lack of saving has a lot to do with the times they were living in. Historically everything was pretty rosy in the country while the boomers were growing up. Saving for bad times only makes sense when you think there may be bad times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek
Regardless, Boomers didn't have it easier, you just want to think they did. What they did, instead of complaining about how good their parents had it and blaming them for the rough times (in case you missed the 80's - read some history), they went out and worked their butts off so they'd have a decent life.
The data simply doesn't show this, people are having a harder time making it today then they did when the boomers were growing up. The boomers favored policies that benefited them now and screwed us later. They also bid up housing prices by "moving up" every 5~10 years and again favored policies that propped up home prices that benefit them at the cost of the younger generations.
Revenge is coming and the tides are going to shift. You can ignore it all you wish, but it is coming regardless. Boomers as a voting bloc are losing power to Generation X and Y and this most recent election pretty much shows the balance of power has shifted. Over the next 10-20 years the desires of the boomers will become more and more irrelevant politically.
Boomers had it easier? I grew up dirt poor and my wife was almost as poor.
The first year we were married (1972) we made a grand total of $4500, and we were glad to have it. Credit cards? The few we do have we have always paid off every month.
I'll tell you what the problem is: junk. All that crap you have to have now, whether you can afford it or not. Hey, just charge it! That attitude was rare to non-existent when I was younger. As for blaming the current mess on the Boomers in the 80's and 90's try a little education.
What was our national debt when Bush took over office? What was it when he got re-elected? What is it now?
Before you start your incessant whining learn what caused the mess were in and who caused it. I'm not willing to be your whipping boy just because you don't understand the problem.
Grow up.
Like buying a $5,000 sewing machine?
Or buying a property yet knowing nothing about the area and realizing you made a huge mistake?
Yeah, yeah. You worked for it. But so did we. Before anyone casts stones, though...
I'm 47 and never considered myself a boomer. Now that Obama is elected, we are suddenly referred to as the new generation and Generation X. Good. I'll take it.
I've written about the boomers many times on the forum, over the past couple of years. Without fail, boomers come along and tell me how hard they worked, how tough they had it. How this is MY generations fault.
I could go on and on about the major differences in the generations but it will do no good because boomers think they know everything, and now that things are really messed up they are really defensive.
The data simply doesn't show this, people are having a harder time making it today then they did when the boomers were growing up. The boomers favored policies that benefited them now and screwed us later. They also bid up housing prices by "moving up" every 5~10 years and again favored policies that propped up home prices that benefit them at the cost of the younger generations.
Revenge is coming and the tides are going to shift. You can ignore it all you wish, but it is coming regardless. Boomers as a voting bloc are losing power to Generation X and Y and this most recent election pretty much shows the balance of power has shifted. Over the next 10-20 years the desires of the boomers will become more and more irrelevant politically.
I agree, that maintaining a similar standard of living today is far more difficult than it was in the past. Single incomes are close to non-existant, pensions are non-existant, life-long employment is non-existant, making a career off of Only a high-school degree and your own hands is near non-existant, earning more than expenses is more difficult, education is more expensive, health care is more expensive, etc. etc. and now... even opportunities for "advancement" has been suspended as the Boomers "can't" retire.
Anyhow, I don't think it's totally the Boomers fault. The prosperity of America was primarily the result of the rest of the world being devastated and having to rebuild after World War II. This gives the USA a huge advantage that the Boomer's were able to enjoy as essentially the sole manufacturer, servicer, etc. to the rest of the world. This also gave the Boomers the ability to accumulate wealth over time (that's if they even did).
America has been losing this prosperity since the mid 70s accelerating in the late 90s and 2000s. I'm talking about decisions (most likely conducted by the Boomer generation) that involved moving millions of middle class jobs from manufacturing to more recently in the 90s and 2000s tech, financial, legal, and other service and white collared jobs.
As a result, incomes have been stagnant for the majority of the populace since the mid 70s. Now that we're seeing a total collapse of the "financial" sector and a shedding of more white collar jobs... there is no doubt that prospects for Gen X, Y, and future generations will be severely impacted.
In theory, the baby boomers should be fine... since in "theory" they should have been saving for their timely retirement (after all, you should be "saving" during prosperity). But sadly, they haven't... Of course Humanoid was right that the Boomer's were the most "spendiest" generation. Why don't they have enough "saved" for retirement? Are they "expecting" handouts?
What the Boomers left us with is the biggest gap for handouts that Gen X, Y, and Z will have to pay out.... Over the years, the Boomers have voted in countless policies that encouraged government spending, deficit spending, and programs that "raided" supposively secure funds. Close to 46 trillion in medicaid, medical, social security payouts are soon to be due for the generation that had it the easiest to "save".
The good thing though... is like Humanoid said... is that the Boomers generation's political clout will be greatly diminished as Gen X, Y, and Z and beyond emerges. Perhaps we'll just have to "repeal" the contracts.... "down-size" social security... or "re-structure" medicare... to "mitigate" losses. After all that's what companies and organizations are doing to US when they are in debt and have excess baggage. Karma... what is dealt will come back.
Again you don't remember those things because for example very few had card cards. Not because they didn't want them, but because they weren't widespread at that point. Lending standards were different back then because the banks largely kept the loans on their books. But policies changed (who do you think.....had a part in that...).
Regardless, I never claimed boomers had a problem with debt. I claimed they didn't save (and hence spent) their income away. Until their grandparents who typically saved a lot. The lack of saving has a lot to do with the times they were living in. Historically everything was pretty rosy in the country while the boomers were growing up. Saving for bad times only makes sense when you think there may be bad times.
The data simply doesn't show this, people are having a harder time making it today then they did when the boomers were growing up. The boomers favored policies that benefited them now and screwed us later. They also bid up housing prices by "moving up" every 5~10 years and again favored policies that propped up home prices that benefit them at the cost of the younger generations.
Revenge is coming and the tides are going to shift. You can ignore it all you wish, but it is coming regardless. Boomers as a voting bloc are losing power to Generation X and Y and this most recent election pretty much shows the balance of power has shifted. Over the next 10-20 years the desires of the boomers will become more and more irrelevant politically.
generation x and y will totally screw up if they think that they can have a free ride because there is no such thing. all of the social programs that everybody wanted have to be paid for and yet people still want more. the youth want something for everybody. it is all smoke and mirrors now, so it won't be the boomers who are paying for it. generation x and y will only be burdening themselves. if you want to call that revenge, go ahead.....
generation x and y will totally screw up if they think that they can have a free ride because there is no such thing. all of the social programs that everybody wanted have to be paid for and yet people still want more. the youth want something for everybody. it is all smoke and mirrors now, so it won't be the boomers who are paying for it. generation x and y will only be burdening themselves. if you want to call that revenge, go ahead.....
Okay. So how about we start with you boomers and take away your social security.
Or buying a property yet knowing nothing about the area and realizing you made a huge mistake?
Yeah, yeah. You worked for it. But so did we. Before anyone casts stones, though...
Yes, exactly like that. Instead of spending my life whining about how bad things were because the generation ahead of me did things that caused me to not be financially happy I went out and worked, hard. I've had jobs in my life that you and others in this thread would never dream of doing. I worked them because I had no other choice. Dirty, filthy, dangerous jobs that didn't pay much, but they kept food on the table and clothes on my back, and there were times when a meal consisted of ketchup sandwiches and water.
I earned every penny I have and I'll spend it any way I want.
BTW the property wasn't a huge mistake. I've been watching the land values and we will be making a good profit within a few years. Seems it's turned into a good investment...
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