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Let me give you just an example of the amount of hw my 4th grader has just this week:
Spelling packet, 5 different activities, plus study words & vocabulary, 30 words
Math every night, last night it was a worksheet AND a big review packet for a unit test tomorrow.
Science Unit test is also this week, a language arts worksheet (punctuation corrections), and a language arts test on Thursday.
She also has a social studies quiz today which unfortunately we did not review for as much as we should have, but had no time after everything else.
She also has a book report due on Friday, we have had 3 weeks to work on it, but she has some things to finish up on that as well.
This is just ONE week! So yes, she has heard myself and my husband say it is too much work, we have another child who also requires help with homework and this is pretty much how our evenings are consumed, in addition to fitting in the very few activities they are involved in because of all this homework...
Ya I have to agree, doesn't sound that bad. So tonight, some math, a worksheet in LA, a spelling packet, and the finishing touches on a book report. That should be about an hour or so of the child's work. Add review for science, and SS you are looking at what? Another half hour.
If you child is spending that much more time on those, and is not capable of doing it on their own I would talk to the teacher. Those can be signs of either a lack of study skills, simple immaturity or hopefully not a more serious issue. Good luck.
If kids don't like to read and "hate" school, why are the Harry Potter books so successful? Didn't they spur like a mini renaissance in kids reading?
-The problem is schools don't know what they're doing, they're simply too big and bureaucratic to see it. They think that if you just treat everyone the same, and put some lessons and books in front of kids, they'll "learn" and be interested, and be good students.
The elephant in the room is that 1 teacher and 30 desks in a class in 2011 is archaic and outdated. It's not the optimal way to learn. They should be using audio, visual, slides, computers, hand held computers, etc.
-Another issue, kids being grouped by age in 2000-2011 is a hideous handicap.
The smart kids have a lot to read in this day and age (internet, amazon, kindles at home, etc). Look at the amount of material that can be stored in devices at home. It's gone up a lot in the last 10-15 years.
If we're in this instant information age, isn't grouping kids by age a handicap? Student A has all this knowledge available (at home).....but has to wait for Student B, C and D to catch up. Then they're all graded on equal weight at the end of the year.
I think it really means that Student A has been bored (thus disliking or hating school). And B, C and D get a grade because of political correctness, not because of ability.
I think the system stifles individuality and individual expression....thus, some kids feeling like they aren't heard. Thus, they "hate" it.
I also believe in differentiated instruction and tracking. Unfortunately it is not really possible to do that with students of differing age groups. I teach gifted children, some far smarter than their age group. Many of those "brillant" children are too immature to be capable of functioning in the type of environment you describe. Strong tracking across a large population would work better than tracking ignoring age level in a smaller one.
Additionally, I utilize more technology than most teachers and at the end of the day none of it replaces the teacher. Technology, even adaptive tech, can only give you breadth of knowledge not depth. The most "challenging" material in our program is not knowledge based but application based (for example they conduct and submit research to peer reviewed publication). They need a teacher for that.
Finally, as for archaic, it is truly archaic to claim that people do not "learn" in a classroom setting. We know through decades upon decades of research that a large portion of people learn best through auditory methods, a similar proportion that would learn best the way you suggest. Neither actually describes how the majority of people learn best, which is through "doing" or kintetically.
This sounds like a very reasonable amount of work for a nine-year-old. It doesn't sound like the kind of work that would require a lot of parent intervention except for practicing math facts or other memorization work. There is usually no need for a child to need their parents' help with a book report.
You make it sound as if her work is your work. Learning to struggle is part of learning to learn. Fourth grade is often where that process begins.
No, these book reports require adult help.... They are not just a book report, they are a report and a project in correlation with it.... They most definitely require adult help.
My daughter tends to struggle a little so it impossible that she needs a little more help than average, but we help her study for the big u it tests all the time.
They are sent home with study guide packets that parents must sign saying that we have reviewed the material with them.
It is overload and I have talked to many parents from other areas who say their 4th graders are. It getting this amount of work.
No, these book reports require adult help.... They are not just a book report, they are a report and a project in correlation with it.... They most definitely require adult help.
My daughter tends to struggle a little so it impossible that she needs a little more help than average, but we help her study for the big u it tests all the time.
They are sent home with study guide packets that parents must sign saying that we have reviewed the material with them.
It is overload and I have talked to many parents from other areas who say their 4th graders are. It getting this amount of work.
Apparently it's common these days for districts to require children to depend on their parents for their grades. Does your school penalize students whose parents don't review the material with them? I would have been so out of luck.
The work that you described seemed in line with what our daughter had in fourth grade. She never asked for help, and we let her be in charge of her own studies. She's done okay so far. I helped her read a couple of books in AP English, but she managed on her own until then. I suppose things change.
I don't know... I guess every area , district,etc.. Is very different.
It certainly feels like alot of work all at one time, several tests,quizzes and projects all at one time.
I know that the other parents here have similar complaints.....
Who knows, it could be that I am an older mom with less patience, I just feel overloaded with all of it.
If kids don't like to read and "hate" school, why are the Harry Potter books so successful? Didn't they spur like a mini renaissance in kids reading?
-The problem is schools don't know what they're doing, they're simply too big and bureaucratic to see it. They think that if you just treat everyone the same, and put some lessons and books in front of kids, they'll "learn" and be interested, and be good students.
The elephant in the room is that 1 teacher and 30 desks in a class in 2011 is archaic and outdated.It's not the optimal way to learn. They should be using audio, visual, slides, computers, hand held computers, etc.
-Another issue, kids being grouped by age in 2000-2011 is a hideous handicap.
The smart kids have a lot to read in this day and age (internet, amazon, kindles at home, etc). Look at the amount of material that can be stored in devices at home. It's gone up a lot in the last 10-15 years.
If we're in this instant information age, isn't grouping kids by age a handicap? Student A has all this knowledge available (at home).....but has to wait for Student B, C and D to catch up. Then they're all graded on equal weight at the end of the year.
I think it really means that Student A has been bored (thus disliking or hating school). And B, C and D get a grade because of political correctness, not because of ability.
I think the system stifles individuality and individual expression....thus, some kids feeling like they aren't heard. Thus, they "hate" it.
Have you ever been in a room where students are allowed to us computers to "learn"? Half of them don't. I had my students in the computer lab doing research today and I had to baby sit half of them to keep them from playing games. I've got news for you. One teacher in front of the classroom may be archaic but you need her to keep the students on task. I find that when given technology my students would rather do anything with it except learn. It's a distraction.
BTW, studies in districts that lack technology show that students learn BETTER without it (it's been a while since I've seen this as it was swept under the rug because districts are pushing for technology as if it's an answer when it isn't. It turns out that districts who lack technology have nothing to do beside teach the basics so their kids learn the basics). Much of what we teach in school today has not changed in 50 years. Algebra is the same, chemistry has changed little, physics little, reading and writing haven't changed...if we're still teaching the same subject matter we were 50 years ago, why would you think the model used to SUCCESSFULLY teach it 50 years ago wouldn't work today?
If you want to foster individualism, hire a tutor. If you want to teach the masses, you're going to deal with stifling individualism for the sake of being able to teach everyone. School isn't about expressing yourself as an individual. It's about learning the material. You can express yourself in the 75% of your waking time you're not in school or in writing classes, debate classes, music classes or art classes. Individual expression and classes like algebra, chemistry and physics don't mix.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-06-2011 at 08:07 PM..
Apparently it's common these days for districts to require children to depend on their parents for their grades. Does your school penalize students whose parents don't review the material with them? I would have been so out of luck.
The work that you described seemed in line with what our daughter had in fourth grade. She never asked for help, and we let her be in charge of her own studies. She's done okay so far. I helped her read a couple of books in AP English, but she managed on her own until then. I suppose things change.
Yes, my daughter had a different review packet that I did not see the parent signature on and she got a point taken off because I did not sign it...
( this was at the beginning of the year).
I also have to say that they have a book report/ project every month and it is VERY obvious that the kids are not in any way, doing these projects alone. In fact, I would venture to say that Many of them didn't even touch their projects, other than to carry them into school.... I only know what the projects look like because I volunteer and they are placed on display in the hallways...
Have you ever been in a room where students are allowed to us computers to "learn"? Half of them don't. I had my students in the computer lab doing research today and I had to baby sit half of them to keep them from playing games. I've got news for you. One teacher in front of the classroom may be archaic but you need her to keep the students on task. I find that when given technology my students would rather do anything with it except learn. It's a distraction.
BTW, studies in districts that lack technology show that students learn BETTER without it (it's been a while since I've seen this as it was swept under the rug because districts are pushing for technology as if it's an answer when it isn't. It turns out that districts who lack technology have nothing to do beside teach the basics so their kids learn the basics). Much of what we teach in school today has not changed in 50 years. Algebra is the same, chemistry has changed little, physics little, reading and writing haven't changed...if we're still teaching the same subject matter we were 50 years ago, why would you think the model used to SUCCESSFULLY teach it 50 years ago wouldn't work today?
If you want to foster individualism, hire a tutor. If you want to teach the masses, you're going to deal with stifling individualism for the sake of being able to teach everyone. School isn't about expressing yourself as an individual. It's about learning the material. You can express yourself in the 75% of your waking time you're not in school or in writing classes, debate classes, music classes or art classes. Individual expression and classes like algebra, chemistry and physics don't mix.
Some things have changed a lot in 50 years.
-Remember typewriters? I had one as recently as the early 90's in my house, I remember doing reports on it. Now every kid knows how to type.
I think schools for the most part are still stuck in the typewriter era. Why are kids still lugging around big books in 2011? That isn't archaic?
Kids could have 10x better material on a kindle like device (say updated yearly, so you don't have to get new additions of books). What about going through old books or problems from years ago? Wouldn't that be helpful on a handheld device?
-Say you have a class of 7th graders failing math. I think it'd be useful and practical to have a kindle like device, and be able to cycle through back to 4th grade problems. Or see what they missed in 5th. Isn't school cumulative to some degree? I think there's a lot of benefits to technology, just in terms of ease of use and efficiency.
What if you had every test you ever took on a handheld device? That would seem useful.
-I think another huge difference from 50 years ago is the lack of information. 50 years ago you pretty much had your school library, town/city library, and that was about it.
Why have the same classroom setting if you have access to so much more information now? They made cars successful 50 years ago in this country, but it doesn't mean its the right way to do it now.
-Haven't they cut music and art to the bone in most places? Those aren't the "cool" things anymore...thus, the heavy emphasis on passing reading and math tests. They've cut a lot of individual expression out of the equation.
-Remember typewriters? I had one as recently as the early 90's in my house, I remember doing reports on it. Now every kid knows how to type.
I think schools for the most part are still stuck in the typewriter era. Why are kids still lugging around big books in 2011? That isn't archaic?
Kids could have 10x better material on a kindle like device (say updated yearly, so you don't have to get new additions of books). What about going through old books or problems from years ago? Wouldn't that be helpful on a handheld device?
-Say you have a class of 7th graders failing math. I think it'd be useful and practical to have a kindle like device, and be able to cycle through back to 4th grade problems. Or see what they missed in 5th. Isn't school cumulative to some degree? I think there's a lot of benefits to technology, just in terms of ease of use and efficiency.
What if you had every test you ever took on a handheld device? That would seem useful.
-I think another huge difference from 50 years ago is the lack of information. 50 years ago you pretty much had your school library, town/city library, and that was about it.
Why have the same classroom setting if you have access to so much more information now? They made cars successful 50 years ago in this country, but it doesn't mean its the right way to do it now.
-Haven't they cut music and art to the bone in most places? Those aren't the "cool" things anymore...thus, the heavy emphasis on passing reading and math tests. They've cut a lot of individual expression out of the equation.
I agree that technology has changed but the basics have not and we don't need technology to teach most of the basics. I agree that students need to know how to use technology but you don't have to use it all the time to accomplish that. What you need to do is use it like the tool it is and expect students to use it, however, putting kids in front of computers to learn is not the answer. Trust me, they will play. I never take my lower level chemistry class to the computer lab. It would be a disaster. It's a disaster when I take my college prep chemistry class to the computer lab. I do it because some of my students will work and they will learn but I know that most won't on those days. I concentrate on the ones who will learn. I know I will spend my time between answering their questions chasing students off of game sites and email and whatever they're on that has nothing to do with the class I teach and I know it (and these are the kids who will cry for extra time because 40 minutes in the computer lab just isn't enough to get the assignment done!!!...can't get them to start on the task, on the rare occasion they do, they log off and are standing by the door 5 minutes before the class ends and their excuse is "Class is almost over"....)
School is not about individual expression. I never has been. It's about learning the basics so you can move on. However, there are classes you can express yourself in. I can't speak to how many arts classes are in schools these days. Our programs have not been cut, though they're about to be because they just decided we can no longer charge students for materials for classes like band and art. We can't ask parents to rent instruments anymore or buy clay for the clay class.
Kids are lugging around books because books don't have Google, facebook, my space, email, game sites, etc, etc, etc....If we had online books, my students would never read. There's too much temptation to play when on a computer. Personally, I think we'd be better off and our kids would learn more if we went back to having them use the library to look things up and read. All too often, "research" is type it into Google and paraphrase the first page that comes up. Technology is making our kids lazy and distracting them from learning.
From a school's perspective, online texts would be wonderful. They don't get lost or damaged and you wouldn't have to wait until it was your turn to get a new text to change books (I don't like the book I inherited but it's mine for the next 8 years until it's my turn for books) BUT we'd have too many problems with students doing everything but read when online and we know it. I have several students I've never seen actually do the task I asked them to do when we use computers.
Computers are toys to kids. You can't expect to put a toy in front of them and have them use it to learn. They just won't. I agree they need to know how to use them but that needs to be on their time. That way if they want to play, they aren't wasting anyone elses time. I hate taking my classes to the computer lab because half of my students won't work. Computer lab is free time to them not work time. Computers are not tools they are toys.
Why have the same classroom setting with so much more information now? Because the kids won't use that information anyway. They think Google, cut and past = research. Because they won't use the technology to access the information anyway. They'd learn far more if we went to the library and made them look things up the old fashioned way....with books that can't go to mirror sites so they can play games instead of do what they're supposed to do.
Teaching with technology sounds good in theory....then there's practice. What you're missing is in order for this to work we'd need to do something that is TABOO. We'd have to hold our students accountable for their own learning. We don't. If we go to the computer lab and one of my kids gets out to a game site and I don't catch it, I'm the one in the hot seat because I didn't manage to police 24 computer stations at one time well enough. Never mind that I was, probably, doing my job (you know TEACHING) by answering a question for one of the students who actually wanted to learn at the time the other student was playing a game.
Teaching with technology won't work until the day students are intrinsically motivated to learn and held accountable for both learning AND whatever sites they visit they aren't supposed to. Our kids come to us expecting to be entertained. If the class is boring, they don't think they have to pay attention. If they don't learn it's everyone's fault but theirs. I have to cross my t's and dot my i's to prove that I did everything in my power to get Johnny to learn and it's still my fault when he chooses to play online instead of do the work we went to the computer lab to do.
As to looking back to review, you can already do that online at home. You don't need a computer in front of you in class to accomplish that. There are lots of review sites on line. Students don't use them but they're there.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 12-07-2011 at 03:57 AM..
-Remember typewriters? I had one as recently as the early 90's in my house, I remember doing reports on it. Now every kid knows how to type.
I think schools for the most part are still stuck in the typewriter era. Why are kids still lugging around big books in 2011? That isn't archaic?
Kids could have 10x better material on a kindle like device (say updated yearly, so you don't have to get new additions of books). What about going through old books or problems from years ago? Wouldn't that be helpful on a handheld device?
-Say you have a class of 7th graders failing math. I think it'd be useful and practical to have a kindle like device, and be able to cycle through back to 4th grade problems. Or see what they missed in 5th. Isn't school cumulative to some degree? I think there's a lot of benefits to technology, just in terms of ease of use and efficiency.
What if you had every test you ever took on a handheld device? That would seem useful.
-I think another huge difference from 50 years ago is the lack of information. 50 years ago you pretty much had your school library, town/city library, and that was about it.
Why have the same classroom setting if you have access to so much more information now? They made cars successful 50 years ago in this country, but it doesn't mean its the right way to do it now.
-Haven't they cut music and art to the bone in most places? Those aren't the "cool" things anymore...thus, the heavy emphasis on passing reading and math tests. They've cut a lot of individual expression out of the equation.
Kindles or even better iPads would be great. Reading is not how the majority of people learn though. So while technology is fine and dandy and certainly has its place, ignoring what we actually KNOW about how people learn is pointless.
What hasn't changed in 50 years? The human brain, the product of a million years or so of evolution. Shifting instruction entirely to focus on the learning style of one subset of learners is not the answer to fixing the issues in education.
Why do people not understand the FACT that they way YOU learn is not the way everyone learns?
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I've got news for you. One teacher in front of the classroom may be archaic but you need her to keep the students on task. I find that when given technology my students would rather do anything with it except learn. It's a distraction. 