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Old 07-01-2012, 09:59 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,723,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Read carefully. I think that parents should pay 100% of the cost of educating their child.
Read carefully. Vouchers make the government pay 85%.

That's why you are a hypocrite to say the above statement AND support vouchers.
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Old 07-02-2012, 09:41 AM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,314,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Read carefully. Vouchers make the government pay 85%.

That's why you are a hypocrite to say the above statement AND support vouchers.
I support vouchers as a TRANSITION to situation where the government is not involved in education. My ideal would be that education is 100% a local community concern, where parents pay schools directly for the education that they choose for their children. I don't think that vouchers are the best solution- but they are better than our current system, and a step in the right direction.

You are so wrapped up in name calling that you just refuse to understand that.
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Old 07-02-2012, 09:57 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,723,474 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
I support vouchers as a TRANSITION to situation where the government is not involved in education. My ideal would be that education is 100% a local community concern, where parents pay schools directly for the education that they choose for their children. I don't think that vouchers are the best solution- but they are better than our current system, and a step in the right direction.

You are so wrapped up in name calling that you just refuse to understand that.
Because it is hypocritical.

Now you want the government to pay for FOR PROFIT schools instead of public, that is not the same direction as parents paying 100%. Saying it over and over and over again will not make it true.
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Old 07-02-2012, 10:27 AM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,314,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Because it is hypocritical.

Now you want the government to pay for FOR PROFIT schools instead of public, that is not the same direction as parents paying 100%. Saying it over and over and over again will not make it true.
I don't want the "government" to pay for schools at all.

I want to get rid of all federal taxes that pay for schools.

I want to dismantle the Dept. of Education.

I want local governments to decide how to pay for schools, ideally by allowing parents to contract with schools directly, rather than relying on local taxes.

What I think will improve education is for parents to be able to choose- and pay for- the education they want for their children...not through taxes, but through a direct payment to the school. I don't see the hypocrisy here.
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Old 07-02-2012, 10:53 AM
 
11,411 posts, read 7,800,858 times
Reputation: 21923
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
I don't want the "government" to pay for schools at all.

I want to get rid of all federal taxes that pay for schools.

I want to dismantle the Dept. of Education.

I want local governments to decide how to pay for schools, ideally by allowing parents to contract with schools directly, rather than relying on local taxes.

What I think will improve education is for parents to be able to choose- and pay for- the education they want for their children...not through taxes, but through a direct payment to the school. I don't see the hypocrisy here.
What you describe in this post is not a voucher system. I think the confusion is you've also posted in favor of vouchers.

Do you really believe that all parents can pay for education without it being subsidized? I paid for my kids to go to private school. The last one graduated in 2006. Her tuition that year (excluding books and fees) was 18K. This was not a boarding school, but a non-religious college prep school. Sure there are cheaper options where I live, but we preferred a larger, non-religious, academically rigorous education for our kids. Tuition usually went up about 6% a year, except when your kid went from lower to middle or middle to upper school. Then the increase was more like 15%. Pay for that for 2 kids over 13 years each and I could have had a summer home in Italy for less.

DH and I were able to do this because we lived on his salary and used mine for K-12 education and savings for college. We lived in a modest home, drove old cars, rarely ate out or took a vacation. And we considered ourselves damned lucky we could make it work for our family. How many parents do you think would be able to do the same? How many would be willing? The scheme you talk about in your post just flat out won't work. Even the small, religious privates in my area are charging 6-7K a year per kid. That's still way out of reach for most families.

We need to concentrate on how we can make public education better. If that means I have to pay higher taxes, then so be it. If you're set on paying 100% of your kids education, find a private school you like and write them a check for tuition each year.
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:42 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
4,677 posts, read 5,765,142 times
Reputation: 2981
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
I support vouchers as a TRANSITION to situation where the government is not involved in education. My ideal would be that education is 100% a local community concern, where parents pay schools directly for the education that they choose for their children. I don't think that vouchers are the best solution- but they are better than our current system, and a step in the right direction.

You are so wrapped up in name calling that you just refuse to understand that.
Vouchers would make a horrible transition. It is actually a step in the opposite direction, where there is less local control of education, private schooling is more dependent on government funding, and government control of education is more entrenched in a matter that decreasing it would cause a significant negative effect on private schools.
It also makes it far easier for poor performing schools to stay in business by providing non-educational benefits directly back to parents (e.g. child care).

If you want local control and privatized education, the best thing to do is end federal or state level testing standards and charge tuition for public schools.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,711,762 times
Reputation: 9829
Oops. Political shenanigans uncovered in the passage and announcement of this program. Not much of a surprise.

Emails reveal voucher scheme
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:49 AM
 
606 posts, read 943,865 times
Reputation: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Its not fine with me.

The same people who are pushing vouchers are the ones whining about our test scores on a global scale. The failure to educate children has effects for all of society. As a member of that society AND THE ONE PAYING FOR THAT EDUCATION we have the right to demand it meet certain standards.

If a parent want to pay for that for their child go nuts. BUT I AM PAYING FOR IT. If I and the rest of society have to pay for it, it better meet the minimum standards that society has set.

But what you want is for parents to choose, and society to pay. Not fair.
Wouldn't let me rep you again, but I agree 100%.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:53 AM
 
606 posts, read 943,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Anything that has to do with the government is incredibly inefficient. Allow the free market to work and the price comes way down.
And we have evidence of how well that works in action.



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Old 07-03-2012, 10:31 AM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,314,645 times
Reputation: 3696
[/IMG]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stijl Council View Post
And we have evidence of how well that works in action.



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Yes, big government is a great thing.

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