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The posts about crying or wearing a short skirt to pass math/algebra reminded me--I got through algebra I and II in high school with Ds no matter how hard I tried. Geometry came super easy to me. Senior math was really nothing much at all. When I got to college they only required one math course and mine was statistics.
I could do the formulas and apply them but couldn't do the arithmetic so I ended up with a grade of 50%----failure.
I wasn't going to graduate from college. The guy I was dating...well, his father was a math professor at the college. My boyfriend begged his father to talk to my math professor, which he did, and my failing grade got changed.
I wouldn't have graduated if he hadn't gotten the grade changed and all because I couldn't add or subtract. I KNEW WHICH FORMULA TO USE!!!!! I was so mad. They gave 50% for knowing which formula to use and 50% for getting the math right. If calculators had existed when I was in college I could have gotten 100%.
Why can I figure out which formula to use, can do geometry, but can't manipulate numbers and can't begin to comprehend algebra. And, if the purpose is to learn to think and reason, I guess I can do that. I just can't do algebra. (something in the brain, left sided, right sided, one side not integrated with the other.....)
Math is a subject that builds on a foundation. I missed out on basically all math in elementary, and high school. I did learn to read though, despite my spotty school attendance.
Thus, by age 18, I used a calculator for everything. I can't divide, fractions and decimals are beyond me. I took math 50 at Community college, and failed. I tried math 100, barely passed. I could not do the math for nurses, took it twice. Same with chemistry.
I don't even know how to start to solve a math problem.
Thanks for the good responses. I have always struggled with math when it goes beyond business math. Do I have a LD? Maybe, maybe not. I posted out of frustration and to vent. My goal is Oceanography (major is Environmental Science and Policy with a plan to get my Master's in Oceanography). I have no choice but to take all the way up to two semesters of Calculus.That is a scary prospect for me since I struggle with Algebra. I was told once that I'm a "visual thinker" and therefore the purely "in the head" stuff of Algebra is tough to me. My only hope is to memorize every single formula and all of the variables therein. That is what I have begun doing.
Thanks again for the encouragement!
Unfortunately, you don't have the makings of an oceanographer if you can't pass algebra. It's a science field; it would be like saying you want to be an Opera singer while also being tone deaf. Oceanographers need to understand what they're doing.
Also, you can't pass two semesters of calculus by "memorizing the formulas". It's a problem solving discipline, requiring understanding of the principals involved. If algebra is nearly impossible for you after multiple tries, you simply don't have the math ability to make it through 2nd semester calculus.
Try to find a major and a career path that is more realistic. Avoid the sciences, anything statistics based, and math (of course).
Perhaps Political Science, Government or International Affairs would be good choices for you if you want to help the environment. "Law and Public Policy" is a growing specialty that often deals with environmental issues. Education is also a good bet.
I know this is hard for you to hear, but it's better to realize that now so you don't waste time and money. I decided not to pursue a masters in a particular science field because I also didn't have the math ability. And keep in mind...I got an "A" in 1st semester college calculus!
When filling your car up with gas you can use a form of algebra. Lets say you only have $20.00 to spend on gas today and gas is $3.50 a gallon. How many gallons could you buy?
I'm moving next week and have rented a truck to haul my stuff. In addition to the daily rental fee for the vehicle, there's also a fee for the distance I drive the thing: $0.40 time x miles. You should recognize that as an algebraic equation.
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a friend and I had lunch at a restaurant. Since we were each paying for our own meal, I needed to know how to split the tax. I couldn't remember what the state sales tax was (it had increased relatively recently), but I know that the subtotal for the meal was $12.77, and that the tax on that was $0.99. The tax rate was therefore x, where x satisfied $12.77 * x = $0.99. Solving for x was an everyday application of algebra.
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I like to cut envelopes out of sheets of paper to send hand-made greeting cards. In order to do this, you cut a rhombus out of a sheet of paper and then fold it in four places, making your classic envelope look. I want to mail things as large as possible, so I took the time to determine the largest rhombus which can be cut out of a non-square rectangular sheet of paper with given dimensions. Algebra!
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I knit.
Last night I started in on a new pattern. In the set of instructions, they tell me how many rows and stitches I should get for every 4 inches. They also tell me to do certain things a certain number of inches in. To make the sweater look ok, I need to convert that to # of rows (measuring never works anywhere near as well.)
In this particular case, the pattern (as written) is also too small for me and even if it was big enough, the arms would be too short. So, I have to adjust the instructions to make it proportionally bigger, and then again to make the sleeves proportionally longer. Admittedly, I could guess randomly and just add a few stitches here and there, but I get a much better result if I actually do a calculation. And this is an easy, simple sweater - anything complicated takes much more time.
...etc, etc...
I googled "examples of how we use algebra in everyday life" and got these very basic word problems. I'm sure you could do the same by googling each individual concept in algebra or any other math class.
I googled example of how we use algebra in everyday life and got these very basic word problems. I'm sure you could do the same by googling each individual concept in algebra or any other math class.
I would never have considered any of that algebra. If you are trying to figure out how many gallons of gas you can buy with your $20.00, you don't go through all that rigamarole with the X equals this or that. You just look at the price per gallon and divide the $20. For something like that, I don't think I would even consciously do the divison. My head would just tell me by looking at it.
Listen, in order to advance at work without a college degree, there was a management exam we could take. In order to be eligible for the exam if you didn't have a degree, you had to have a certain number of years/type of experience in the agency and you had to have a certain score on three general subject CLEP exams, two of which had to be English and Math. I took the Math CLEP and passed the minimum score with flying colors--because it was multiple choice. You can often just look at a math problem and figure out which is the right answer on a multiple choice, but the problem with a math class is that you are required to show all these steps, as you demonstrate in your answer above.
Most of those everyday things are easy to just figure out in your head without have to take ten steps to do it.
And you can lose the snarky "Google is your friend" schtick next time. If you don't want to answer civilly, don't. I'm not impressed by the self-perceived superiority of some anonymous schmoe on the Internet.
Yes, "to me," that's why I pointed out my obvious bias, I do feel that way, but IMO, one very important indicator of intelligence is understanding that one cannot possibly know everything, and one can be very wrong when they thought they were correct. I'm always taking in new information and questioning myself. I do know that there is nothing in my life that I can't do, and I function at a very high level in my career and life despite not understanding algebra. I'm often shocked at the lack of intelligence displayed by high school, and often college graduates, even those from high ranked schools, we certainly do not have it all figured out, we should be constantly questioning and challenging what we teach our young people. I don't believe that we need more and more math for everyone because we need more people in mathematical careers, I feel we would be better served by figuring out to nurture those with the aptitude and desire to study those fields.
No, you don't need to know everything. You should understand the basic things and basic algebra is one of them. You don't have to have mastery over mathematical concepts. Everything, and I mean everything, in life can be broken down and examined from a mathematical perspective.
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Our whole idea of college is outdated, college used to be a way for the wealthy to become "well rounded," this made sense for people who didn't have to quit school to earn money. Now college is necessary for almost everyone, it's how most start having a career, it serves a very different purpose, and should be evolving to fit that purpose, but it hasn't changed much at all.
Are you of the opinion that people should not have a broad well-rounded knowledge base?
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I don't believe that hardworking students who can't pass the algebra requirement are in a small minority, I believe the number is much higher than many realize, encompasses significant numbers of potential students, and is far from an anomaly.
You can believe and think whatever you want, but, again, in my vast experience, students who work hard and cannot pass algebra are a small minority.
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We need more research, but grade comparisons and drop out rates are a real concern. We don't realize this because many of these students just give up, and disappear, and many schools just let them fall through the cracks, and we never hear about it.
Again, I have a great deal of experience in this area. I teach Algebra Honors at my school as well as pre-algebra, and remedial math. Everyone who works hard gets a C. At least.
Math does not come easy to me. I got A's, but let me tell you how I got them.
I would often sit in class completely lost taking notes as fast as my hands could write. Sometimes I could sort of understand what was going on and sometimes not. I get home and would begin the homework that day. Almost immediately, I would get stuck and then would have to peek at the steps in the solutions manual (< critical). Each time I would get stuck - which was a lot, I would peek at the solutions manual to get me over the hump. After I finish my homework, I would go back and do it as many times as necessary until I could do each problem without assistance.
There were usually problems that I could not figure out. For those, I would camp out in front of my math professor's door and wait for him or her to show up for their office hours. Often, when they would see me sitting on the floor by their office, I would get an eye roll from them. I would ask my questions and sit in their office and make them explain it to me until understood. Later in my college classes, I hired a tutor.
Now that I understand better the rigor involved in learning mathematics, in the future I will read, take notes, and work through the examples from the chapter/section that I know will be covered in class prior to class and have my questions ready.
This is what it takes for me.
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The other reason is sympathetic teachers who find ways to get you through, like the D- I had in high school. I highly doubt I should have passed despite the hours and hours of studying I spent trying to pass algebra. My teacher put in so much of her free time working with me because my school was small and actually cared about the students, so she was aware of my awards, and stellar academic record. I could see it in her face, she was at a complete loss as to how to help me, I think she just couldn't bear to fail me after watching me work so hard, and seeing me break down in terror over my future because of this.
Since I was not there, I cannot speak as to what the reason was for your struggles. I struggled in high school too - I'm sure for different reasons.
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I never mentioned discalculia, this thread is the first time I've even heard of it. I don't know why I couldn't do algebra, or why so many otherwise very intelligent people can't. I never claimed a disability, I just know a C was impossible for me despite working as hard as anyone possibly could, I gave it everything I possibly could. It's not like every other subject came super easy to me, and required none of my time, some came very easy, some I had to work hard at, and had tremendous homework and testing requirements, but in other subjects the work produced results, it's only with algebra that the work, and incredible amounts of time were meaningless, hours and hours of intense hard work meant nothing, I finished the class as clueless as I started, few experiences were as disheartening as that.
Discalculia has been sprinkled throughout this thread. That would be the only reason that I would bring it up.
Without working with you, I just really cannot speak intelligently as to why you struggled.
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I believe we need to figure this out if algebra is to be a requirement, no other subject has students who do well otherwise dropping out.
Without a doubt, many students fail math classes. It is not due to a math specific disability, though. There are, however, many reasons.
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I don't have the answer, the problem may be teaching, or having mostly unqualified teachers who should not be teaching math because the qualified people are too busy earning much more money and respect elsewhere. Many countries with high student scores also have highly respected, and better paid teachers.
I agree
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Timing of math concepts with brain development could be a factor causing some to lag behind, and end up lost as one poster mentioned.
That is one possible reason certain students do not do well.
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Maybe the requirement standards are just wrong.
The CCSS are going to make this much, much worse. Prior to that, the standards were paced too quickly although the sequence was adequate. Before, they were a mile wide and an inch thick. With CCSS, they are a mile wide and a foot thick. As teachers, we do not have the opportunity to teach a thorough understanding.
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I couldn't get algebra, but my basic math skills are quite good, I can do any normal daily math concern in my head, I can create excel programs by figuring out what I need to accomplish, and having learned the basic way to set it up, which I've read is like math, but feels nothing like what I went through in school. Maybe we should focus on strengthening real world math skills for some students.
This tells me that you probably have a good math mind. I can't be certain, of course, what your obstacles are, but would be willing to bet that if you plugged up the holes, got the right teacher, and prepared adequately, you would excel far beyond what you have in the past.
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There are also probably a number of students with a real disability that need workable strategies to get them through, this could be more prevalent in the US, or other countries better teachers may know more than we do about how to work with these issues.
No, other countries do not have better teachers. When other countries' teachers come here, they fail miserably. That doesn't happen when American teachers go abroad.
The estimation of students with a math specific disability is grossly overstated. Here in the US, we love our labels.
In many Asian countries, the entire family's structure revolves around the academic success of the children. Many families pay for Saturday school to augment their regular education. The children come home and spend hours doing homework.
Now, I am not saying that we should do that and in Finland, they have a completely different approach than I find more appealing and Finland always comes out number one or number two in world rankings.
The thing they do have in common is that there is no diagnosis for Discalculia.
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I don't claim to have the answers, but I feel there's a real problem here that affects far too many students, not just a minority,
There is a problem, but it is not a math specific disability. They are very rare.
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this needs to have our attention and people working on answers.
Believe me when I tell you, there are people working on it. Just the wrong people.
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I've never heard anyone ever say they were dropping out, or considering it because of any other subject.
College attrition rates are a multifaceted issue and cannot be specifically linked college algebra.
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This is big issue in community, and local colleges where poorer students in lower classes are trying to get ahead. No other subject creates such a barrier to success. If the American dream is supposed to be for anyone who works for it, we need to think about this.
Again, the barrier is not a math specific disability. It's really more about preparation. I could go into great detail, but I've already been too wordy.
I feel bad, though, over your frustration with algebra. I know it doesn't need to be that way.
I would never have considered any of that algebra. If you are trying to figure out how many gallons of gas you can buy with your $20.00, you don't go through all that rigamarole with the X equals this or that. You just look at the price per gallon and divide the $20. For something like that, I don't think I would even consciously do the divison. My head would just tell me by looking at it.
This is algebra in everyday life. This is what you asked for.
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Listen, in order to advance at work without a college degree, there was a management exam we could take. In order to be eligible for the exam if you didn't have a degree, you had to have a certain number of years/type of experience in the agency and you had to have a certain score on three general subject CLEP exams, two of which had to be English and Math. I took the Math CLEP and passed the minimum score with flying colors--because it was multiple choice. You can often just look at a math problem and figure out which is the right answer on a multiple choice, but the problem with a math class is that you are required to show all these steps, as you demonstrate in your answer above
.
So? What's your point?
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Most of those everyday things are easy to just figure out in your head without have to take ten steps to do it.
Not the problems that take ten steps. Which, by the way, is a minority of problems in algebra.
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And you can lose the snarky "Google is your friend" schtick next time. If you don't want to answer civilly, don't. I'm not impressed by the self-perceived superiority of some anonymous schmoe on the Internet.
If you don't like snarky, then my suggestion to you is don't start out being snarky. BTW, I have shown great restraint. I have not begun to get snarky. If you want to continue this or even up the ante, I'll be there with bells on.
I'm anonymous on the internet because there are insane people out there whom I do not want to know my identity. I say nothing on the internet that I would not say IRL. If someone starts up with me, I will respond in kind.
You don't need anthropology for basic skills either. It's part of being a well-rounded person. Colleges require a certain amount of "-ology" credits because it wants to graduate well-rounded people. Algebra teaches important thinking and problem solving skills.
This doesn't address my question. Colleges don't require anthropology. Other courses can fill that segment of the distribution requirement. And colleges didn't used to require algebra. The question was: how was this determined suddenly to be an essential skill? And on what basis?
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