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Within my own profession, I have heard elementary school teachers say (more than one), "I don't know why I have to teach long division. When I need to do long division, I grab a calculator".
HS teachers say a lot of stupid things. The "English" teachers say it's not their job to teach grammar. Go figure.
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Originally Posted by Everdeen;
I teach it because it is the launch pad for more advanced topics. If you don't start with the baby steps, you lose students.
For you, it's useful because you're a teacher of math. So you need to teach the baby steps. Susie homemaker, Janet lawyer, and Joe mechanic have no need for algebra.
This is exactly the question I'm asking. Most colleges now require 1 math class for graduation even for humanities majors. I say it's not necessary to make it an across-the-board requirement. As earlier-referenced articles have pointed out, the gratuitous math requirement is preventing a lot of kids from graduating.
The fact that many math functions CAN be expressed algebraically, as you say, doesn't mean they HAVE to be. It doesn't mean that algebra is needed in daily life at all. The fact that someone COULD twist a basic calculation (subtraction, division) into an algebra formula is no justification for requiring everyone to take math in college.
Exactly. Most of those examples given earlier about algebra in real life are things that could be figured out with lower levels of math knowledge. I don't see any everyday person in everyday life turning them into algebraic equations just for fun when there is a simpler way to find the solution. In those examples given, I would be able to figure that stuff out using the math I learned in high school, and I never passed high school algebra. I took "Consumer Math" and another math fundamentals course instead.
When my son (the one with a math learning disability, most likely dyscalculia) was in high school and they were trying to teach him algebra, they would try and appeal to his interests in an attempt to show him how it would be useful. Since he is an artist, the teacher would say things like this:
"Let's say you are commissioned to do a huge mural downtown on the side of a building. Now you will need to use algebra to figure out how much paint to buy."
Well, my son would look confused and then respond with "Nah, I'd just buy an estimated amount of paint to get started, or buy MORE than I think I'll need. I'm sure I'll use the leftover in another project...if I underestimate, I'll just go back to the store for more paint..."
By the same token, you can look at almost everything from a sociological perspective. I do it often, because it's fun to me, but should students be required to take Sociology of Popular Music, followed by the Sociology of Suburban Life, Sociology of Gender, Sociology of Aging, Sociology of Revolutions? Genocide? Sexual behaviors?
My issue is not with having a math requirement at the college level, but specifically with a College Algebra course being required when a course like "Math for Liberal Arts Majors" will suffice. I've looked at various BA degrees at various schools and there doesn't seem to be any consistency here, where one school requires College Algebra and the other offers Liberal Arts Math, to earn the same degree. I've taken Liberal Arts Math and I've taken a bunch of "pre-Algebra" remedial courses, for me there's a huge difference in difficulty.
Listen, in order to advance at work without a college degree, there was a management exam we could take. In order to be eligible for the exam if you didn't have a degree, you had to have a certain number of years/type of experience in the agency and you had to have a certain score on three general subject CLEP exams, two of which had to be English and Math. I took the Math CLEP and passed the minimum score with flying colors--because it was multiple choice. You can often just look at a math problem and figure out which is the right answer on a multiple choice, but the problem with a math class is that you are required to show all these steps, as you demonstrate in your answer above.
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OP, I wanted to redirect your attention to the above that I wrote in another post. Would this be a solution you could look at--taking the CLEP in lieu of an actual math course? You would have to check with your educational institution to see what their policy is on CLEP and what they accept, and of course see if this would work better for you. If they allow you to substitute CLEP for the equivalent credits, you could complete your degree. I think it's worth looking into.
I don't know if you've ever read Malcolm Gladwell's book Blink, but it's similar to my experience described above--knowing something without being able to explain how you know it.
For you, it's useful because you're a teacher of math. So you need to teach the baby steps. Susie homemaker, Janet lawyer, and Joe mechanic have no need for algebra.
I'm quoting this post only because it is a point I wanted to address as I have been reading this thread.
So many people think very complicated math when they think of Algebra when it is really very simple. Any calculation where you have an unknown is Algebra. Period.
You will always use addition, subtraction, multiplication and division in doing Algebra.
Figuring miles per gallon is basic Algebra. MPG is your formula with M and G standing in for the numbers you fill in just like any X or Y in a class problem and the P is the function you use-division. Once you plug in your numbers you divide and have your answer that was previously unknown. One could say 400 divided by 25 equals 16 and it means nothing to you unless you know that the 400 is Miles, the 25 is Gallons and the answer 16 is how many MPG your car did. That is a difference between basic math and Algebra. Algebra assigns meaning to numbers and functions.
Same thing goes for figuring how long it will take you to get somewhere - MPH except in this instance you are using time as part of the function. Most people have no problem estimating how long, however it is still based on an Algebraic formula that you have to have have gained a basic understanding of in order to compute it.
Something as ordinary as ordering pizza can be Algebra as well. For instance, you are having a get together that runs later than expected and you decide to keep going and have some pizza. You are using Algebra to figure out how many pizzas to order to feed the crowd you have. Talking it out - your thought process goes something like.....if adults eat an average of 3 pieces each and kids 2 each let's go with 3 each to make sure we have enough. Now there are a total of 25 people here so 25 times 3 is 75 pieces. Pizza comes in 8 slices so 75 divided by 8 is almost 10 pizzas, so let's go with 10. You've just done Algebra. Perhaps you skipped some steps or perhaps you did more than what I listed. Either way, you've used a formula to figure out how many to order.
So, in everyday things people use basic Algebra all the time. Because it is so simple and comes quickly, most don't tend to recognize it as Algebra. Just remember that once a meaning has been assigned to a number, a function has been performed and a previously unknown answer is provided, you have indeed done Algebra!
I actually enjoy simple Algebra. It's the more complex, multi-step problems that I can't get. One is taught that for a particular problem, one adds the opposite of an integer to the other side of the equation. Sometimes the operator is used to designate whether the number is positive or negative and other times, the operator is disregarded. That is just one of many examples where Algebra trips me up. I am starting to think that the problem for me is how the subject is taught. Every study aide, tutor, teacher, and text treats solving the problem as a set of "tricks" instead of just laying it out for the student/reader. Does that make sense?
This is exactly the question I'm asking. Most colleges now require 1 math class for graduation even for humanities majors.
I say it's not necessary to make it an across-the-board requirement. As earlier-referenced articles have pointed out, the gratuitous math requirement is preventing a lot of kids from graduating.
I got a little off topic, here, without realizing it.
The direction I was headed in earlier was that people are too willing toss up their hands and say either they just don't get math or they have discalculia or something else. True discalculia is very rare. I was actually discussing this with a colleague today. He knew an adult that has true discalculia. This person cannot even maneuver through a simple recipe because its affects. According to the some sources, discalculia affects 3% to 6% of the American population. I specify American as it is virtually non- existent in other developed nations. I do not want the OP to think he or she has a disability when they don't.
I would be curious to know what percent of students who are attending college go through all their classes and then don't graduate because they could not get a C- or better in one math class. Because that is what is being championed here. Students are failing at math and the reasons are legion, but it is not because of wide-spread discalculia.
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The fact that many math functions CAN be expressed algebraically, as you say, doesn't mean they HAVE to be.
Nothing has to be taught, but learning how to write a simple equation using the tools of algebra makes it much easier to write and solve more complicated equations.
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It doesn't mean that algebra is needed in daily life at all.
I've learned it, so, yes I use it in daily life. Once you have learned it it makes problem solving easier, faster, and with fewer errors. It also teaches you to approach problems with better analytical skills. Although you may not write a problem out and solve for x, the thinking skills you learn are transferable.
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The fact that someone COULD twist a basic calculation (subtraction, division) into an algebra formula is no justification for requiring everyone to take math in college. Remember, the OP is asking why algebra should be a requirement in college at all, given that so many struggle with it.
The reasons above are why it should be a requirement. Everything has a mathematical component. Art, nature, music, and even language. Understanding the mathematics behind it helps you develop a deeper and more appreciative understanding of whatever you endeavor to learn.
Can you get by without it? Sure. There are people who get by without being literate. It is amazing what you can get by with.
Remember, the OP was asking about a college education which requires more of us and with higher expectations.
BTW, the person who posted a list of degrees/schools that do not require math was the poster sheena12 not sheila something-or-other.
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Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
HS teachers say a lot of stupid things. The "English" teachers say it's not their job to teach grammar. Go figure.
^ Oh gawd. I hate that.
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For you, it's useful because you're a teacher of math. So you need to teach the baby steps. Susie homemaker, Janet lawyer, and Joe mechanic have no need for algebra.
My husband is a mechanic. Actually, now he teaches automotive. I can tell you that algebra is integral in what he does.
But besides that, algebra teaches you ways to think, as I stated earlier, it also teaches you analytical skills that you will use without even realizing it. And that is just basic algebra. It gets even better the more you take in and understand.
You never know what someone will do in their future. If you would have told me when I was young that I would teach math, I would have called you a liar to your face. Even when I started college, I began as a nursing major. I am so glad that the educators in my most formative years did not limit my later options by not teaching me the fundamentals. I am grateful that my college hoisted a math class upon me while doing my nursing studies so that I could learn this valuable skill.
Students are failing at math and we need to target why. We spend a ton of money on education, but don't spend it in the right ways...and it's getting worse.
I was really great with arithmetic, but no way my brain could do modern math/algebra. There must be some degrees one can get without it. What kind of degree did you want? Can you settle for a second choice? I very nearly had a 2 year college degree, and no algebra was required.
Nobody is great at everything. There is a book called "Discover What You're Best At" that you can use to do self tests to see where you excel & where you don't. When I was in college, I could get an A in 1 course with hardly any study, or study real hard in something else and get a D. I refused to do some assignments or complete some classes as I knew my brain was inadequate in some areas.
I really wish so many employers didn't require college degrees, involving subjects that have nothing to do with what skills are needed for the job. Maybe Vo-Tech could be better for job training? And some people are ultra-knowledgeable in 1 or 2 areas where they taught themselves, but so many employers are not willing to give credit for that. Best wishes.
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Originally Posted by Lior Arel
This is more of a vent post, as I know there is no solution to my problem.
After 20 years, I finally started college. There were a handful of reasons I didn't go back when I graduated high school, bit I'm happy to be going back. However, I can't even pass Pre-Algebra. I failed it three times in High School and only graduated when the Summer School teacher coached me though every question, even on the final.
Time has passed, nothing has changed. My hopes are dashed. You can't get a degree without at least College Algebra. I BARELY passed the Remdial Math 1 class I tested into, and now half way through Pre-algebra and I realize its going to be a no go.
Thanks for the good responses. I have always struggled with math when it goes beyond business math. Do I have a LD? Maybe, maybe not. I posted out of frustration and to vent. My goal is Oceanography (major is Environmental Science and Policy with a plan to get my Master's in Oceanography). I have no choice but to take all the way up to two semesters of Calculus. That is a scary prospect for me since I struggle with Algebra. I was told once that I'm a "visual thinker" and therefore the purely "in the head" stuff of Algebra is tough to me. My only hope is to memorize every single formula and all of the variables therein. That is what I have begun doing.
Thanks again for the encouragement!
My bachelors is oceanography and my grad work is environmental and evolutionary bio (I specialize in invasive marine species and their interactions). Please, please, be aware, to get an oceanography job usually requires a graduate degree. A good grad program is going to want at least Calc 3 and both elementary and advanced statistics.
Additionally, you WILL use that math everyday.
I assuming you are trying to be funny by mentioning that your plan is to be "physically attractive" but if you aren't you should know everyone (ish) in marine science is good looking (it tends to attract blonde, tan, surfer types), its not going to count for jack squat if you can't do the work. And in oceanography the "work" is going to be mathematical in nature. You are going to need to be able to calculate wind stress, measure ekman spirals, do instantaneous rates, areas under the curve, etc. Phys oce (a class all good programs require) is almost entirely applied algebra and calculus.
If you are struggling with Algebra, you may not want to pursue an oceanography degree.
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