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My daughter, who's currently an AP Chemistry student, laughed when I read your comment to her. She said she didn't know how you could learn Chem without an understanding of Algebra. Although I can't confirm, because I did not take Chem at that level, she also said they occasionally use logs in Chemistry, which she did not learn until Pre-Calc.
My daughter, who's currently an AP Chemistry student, laughed when I read your comment to her. She said she didn't know how you could learn Chem without an understanding of Algebra. Although I can't confirm, because I did not take Chem at that level, she also said they occasionally use logs in Chemistry, which she did not learn until Pre-Calc.
I tell my students on day one that chemistry is "math with beakers" but kids are still shocked to find out they have to do algebra in chemistry. They see each subject as separate when by high school they are not. Math struggles are an issue in chemistry. You can fail because you don't learn the material and you can fail because you can't do the math. I've been blamed for ruining more than one 4.0 in my career.
Many US high school students cannot solve math problems from Asian primary schools.
Because those math problems are designed to do more than showcase math skills. They are overwhelmingly what most people would call 'trick questions'. Those primary school Asians are taught about the tricks that are used in those questions, so there is no problem for them.
This is why you have kids who can recite their times tables flawlessly, but if you tell them there are 7 days in a week and ask them how many days are there in 3 weeks, they have no idea. They can do multiplication, but have no idea what it means.
But kids at that age do not think abstractly, do they? They're still in the concrete thinking stage.
I tutored high school students in math for the CAHSEE (California High School Exit Exam). I was astounded at the number of them who did not know their multiplication facts. While they might have had great "math logic," they became so frustrated at doing even two-step algebra problems that they skipped problems or had so many wrong answers that they gave up.
Also, my own kids were taught creative math in elementary school because that's what the state math curriculum demanded at the time. They solved problems such as, "If you have 12 containers, with two seeds in each, how many flowers are produced?" and that type of thing. Memorization of multiplication facts was not required.
They were promptly sent to Kumon. One of them told us years later that he could never have passed Alg II or Trig in high school if he hadn't gone to Kumon. (Of course they hated going at the time.) And Kumon is simply drilling, over and over, until the kid has mastered that particular level of math and can move on to the next level.
Something we're not allowed to do. Holding their students accountable. We're expected to hold our student's hands and if we don't everything from our job to federal funding is on the line. We spiral back to topics over and over because we never expected our kids to get it the first time and Lord forbid I expect my students to USE something they learned before without giving them a review first. My dh used to say (regarding managing people in business) that 95% of getting someone to do something is just expecting them to do it. If we treat our kids like we expect them to not get it the first time and not remember it after it's taught that's exactly what they do.
The biggest difference between math education here and in asia is the amount of time dedicated to review. It's more than double here and we have a shorter school year.
Regarding my experience, I'm convinced that everyone has their own developmental curve. If you're not ready for something you're just not ready for it but that doesn't mean you won't be in a few years. By all rights I should have struggled in math in college. I had a poor math education in high school and barely passed my math classes yet I excelled at math in college. I have no doubt that I would have bombed math classes had I gone to college at 18.
Tickler, I respect your experience and your insights, but even in private schools, where expectations were high, and there was no constant reviewing, kids struggled with math. It was the concepts they couldn't handle. Same with my older brothers. I spent hours on Algebra 1 homework daily and barely got a C. My brothers barely passed their Algebra. The daughter of one of those brothers, OTOH, breezed through all her math classes, and tutored the kids who struggled. She has a gift. No one can figure out where she got it, lol! But it wasn't because her teachers were better. Most of her class struggled.
Relevant to cognitive stages and why many of us believe that the Math processes embedded in Common Core will crash and burn, but not before ruining an entire generation for math. Much like the constant switching between teaching of Reading methods did 25 years ago:
Relevant to cognitive stages and why many of us believe that the Math processes embedded in Common Core will crash and burn, but not before ruining an entire generation for math. Much like the constant switching between teaching of Reading methods did 25 years ago:
According to this, kids should be ready for algebra or pre-algebra in the 6th grade already. Yet they struggle in 9th grade algebra.
According to this, kids should be ready for algebra or pre-algebra in the 6th grade already. Yet they struggle in 9th grade algebra.
Not really, the "by age__________" is still a floating age. And the stages are when they are likely to begin to understand them, not necessarily totally understand them.
Starting about 20 years ago where I was, every kid, including those in Special Ed, had to take Alg I, Geometry and Alg II. My system totally eliminated any basic Math classes at the high school level for a few years. Some of that was driven by State requirements (Alg I and Geometry) and some by magical thinking by our serial Superintendents (15 in my 31 years).
We had to have college themed posters and other classroom items (in fact we even, for a time, were required to have a dedicated "College Corner") and were discouraged from talking any other path than college. I was counseled more than once for suggesting to various kids that they might be better served by a Vo-Tech program or entry to the work force after college (I liked to suggest the railroad to many of them).
I've mentioned several times how every reform over the past 30 years or so was aimed at one or two particular student sub-groups. College For All was, too.
I think I'm glad we live in fly-over country. Not so much of that nonsense here.
I agree but I get called out for taking points off for butchering the English language because I'm not an English teacher therefore it's not "legal" for me to grade on English. You know it doesn't matter how good you are at science if you cannot convey what you know in an intelligent manner. The errors I see are run on papers. No actual paragraphs and they read like a bullet point list all smashed together. I love the word issues. I get "air" instead of "error" or the number 2 to represent to, too, or two. I should start keeping a journal of the many ways my kids butcher the English language.
Do the "English" teachers in your school actually teach English? When I did student teaching, the English teachers refused to teach English. They said it wasn't their job, it was the foreign language teachers' job. They were downright defiant about it. The English teachers' job was to teach literature, period. No composition skills, no advanced grammar, no requirement to write coherently. And this was in the top-rated HS in the city, and a highly-rated school statewide.
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You know it doesn't matter how good you are at science if you cannot convey what you know in an intelligent manner. The errors I see are run on papers. No actual paragraphs and they read like a bullet point list all smashed together. I love the word issues. I get "air" instead of "error" or the number 2 to represent to, too, or two. I should start keeping a journal of the many ways my kids butcher the English language.
