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Just as an aside, do you treat all professionals the same way? If your child in in the ER with a broken arm, do you suggest ways they can fix it better? Do you tell your mechanic "have you ever tried X"?
Anyway not all teachers go to "teaching college" and even those that do are still going to a regular college, just with a particular degree.
BTW, teaching is a group endeavor. What works for one kid, may not work for the majority, and while we all want individual instruction for our kids, that isn't what public school is about. So at most you know what works best for YOUR 5 children. You don't really know what works best for all children right?
While you clearly feel entitled to decide who is "good" and who is "bad". It might be a good idea to remember that the same way there are no good an bad children (since we all know they respond to different teachers, styles and environments differently) that maybe the teachers you like to label "bad" are considered the "best" by other students and parents.
In my experience as a health care provider, yes, people do just that! And/or if the HCP diagnoses the kid with "A", they'll say "Are you sure it's not "B" "? I bet mechanics have heard the same.
There's difference between questioning medical diagnoses and telling a teacher how to teach a classroom full of children. One is a partnership. Your doctor works with you and depends on you to share your knowledge about what you're experiencing. It's just between the two of you. The other affects a large group of people. What works best for Janie might not be what works for Johnnie or Suzie. The teacher has to do his or her best to meet all the kids' needs while also practicing some pretty impressive crowd control.
I've absolutely questioned diagnoses. I did it the other day and I was right. My son actually didn't need the antibiotics the PA prescribed. I insisted on getting in the next day to see his pediatrician instead, and lo and behold, it was a different problem, not an infection. Not the first time it's happened, either.
I wouldn't ask a teacher to change the way he/she taught. If I weren't happy, I'd recognize that the teacher was unable to accommodate my specific child and I'd figure it out from there. In my case, it's a moot point because we homeschool, but I've had them in school and you get what you get in terms of teaching styles. I wouldn't expect a changed style just because my kid wasn't compatible with the teachers personality or whatever.
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I'm curious about what specifically you are suggesting to the teacher. If, for example, your child is struggling with spelling, do you say "It would be helpful if we got the spelling words for Friday's test on Monday, rather than Wednesday, because working on them a few minutes per night seems to be more successful for Jake". Or do you say "Spelling tests aren't a good way to teach spelling. Rather than a test, it's better to have the kids write a few sentences using the word a couple times. Kids learn better that way".
Do you see the difference? Can you be specific about what you're telling the teachers they're not doing as well as another teacher you know?
There's difference between questioning medical diagnoses and telling a teacher how to teach a classroom full of children. One is a partnership. Your doctor works with you and depends on you to share your knowledge about what you're experiencing. It's just between the two of you. The other affects a large group of people. What works best for Janie might not be what works for Johnnie or Suzie. The teacher has to do his or her best to meet all the kids' needs while also practicing some pretty impressive crowd control.
I've absolutely questioned diagnoses. I did it the other day and I was right. My son actually didn't need the antibiotics the PA prescribed. I insisted on getting in the next day to see his pediatrician instead, and lo and behold, it was a different problem, not an infection. Not the first time it's happened, either.
I wouldn't ask a teacher to change the way he/she taught. If I weren't happy, I'd recognize that the teacher was unable to accommodate my specific child and I'd figure it out from there. In my case, it's a moot point because we homeschool, but I've had them in school and you get what you get in terms of teaching styles. I wouldn't expect a changed style just because my kid wasn't compatible with the teachers personality or whatever.
The old "that's different", LOL! I was just pointing out that yes, other professionals get questioned about their work, too. (Some) teachers love to say, "teaching is the only profession where. . . ".
Right, I know. I was explaining why I'd be more likely to ask a dr or a mechanic to try this or that than I would a teacher. I'm sure all professions get it. I get it too! Someone will hire me to edit a document, then they'll say, "don't you think a semicolon should go here?" Umm, not if you want it to be correct!
Right, I know. I was explaining why I'd be more likely to ask a dr or a mechanic to try this or that than I would a teacher. I'm sure all professions get it. I get it too! Someone will hire me to edit a document, then they'll say, "don't you think a semicolon should go here?" Umm, not if you want it to be correct!
Well, look at what people say about teachers, don't look far, just in this thread or a couple others. Find similar ones, and count how many there are about, doctors/nurses/mechanics/dentists, etc. That's one reason teachers tend to be prickly, not to mention that teachers are regularly called out by name by parents at public-with-the-media-attending School Board meetings. Something other professions don't have the pleasure of experiencing. Hell, discipline for a lot of other professions is private and nonpublic.
I'll grant you that there are a couple anti-doctor crazies over on Health and Wellness.
Well, look at what people say about teachers, don't look far, just in this thread or a couple others. Find similar ones, and count how many there are about, doctors/nurses/mechanics/dentists, etc. That's one reason teachers tend to be prickly, not to mention that teachers are regularly called out by name by parents at public-with-the-media-attending School Board meetings. Something other professions don't have the pleasure of experiencing. Hell, discipline for a lot of other professions is private and nonpublic.
I'll grant you that there are a couple anti-doctor crazies over on Health and Wellness.
There sure are! And while I'm not going to plod through CD's sucky search engine to find them, there are lots of anti-nurse posts on here too, as well as on Facebook, etc. Most of the anti-vaccine people are very anti-nurse and any other health care profession except "alternative" practitioners.
In my experience as a health care provider, yes, people do just that! And/or if the HCP diagnoses the kid with "A", they'll say "Are you sure it's not "B" "? I bet mechanics have heard the same.
Oh you've met my mother! Ugh. She's now complaining that the doctor needs to see her for her diabetes every 3 months because that what's her insurance is mandating. She only wants to go every 4 months so she's fighting the doctor's office and the insurance company. Oh and her MD is from AOL....if that tells you anything. I feel for you as a doctor!
Oh you've met my mother! Ugh. She's now complaining that the doctor needs to see her for her diabetes every 3 months because that what's her insurance is mandating. She only wants to go every 4 months so she's fighting the doctor's office and the insurance company. Oh and her MD is from AOL....if that tells you anything. I feel for you as a doctor!
Thanks, but I'm a nurse. Heard it all, though. And I've taken calls where patients want antibiotics (and other meds) prescribed based on their own diagnoses.
Just as an aside, do you treat all professionals the same way? If your child in in the ER with a broken arm, do you suggest ways they can fix it better? Do you tell your mechanic "have you ever tried X"?
Yes. I do not suggest ways they can fix it better, but I will tell them what worked before if the child had a simlar broken arm and they we healed properly.
I always discuss options with any mechanic and they had better have answers. 99% of the time I can do the work myself but do not have time. In some areas, I have more experience than their techs who do the ork - so Yes. I have given mechanics tips on how to do things on a particular car that they came back amazed and said it saved them a ton of time. Many times, I know more about the car than the mechanic will. Again they must generalize, and they have little or no experience with that particular car, I may have 20 or more years experience with that particular year/model.
When I get a hair cut, I tell them I have really severe cowlicks in the back and exactly what they need to do to address them. Why? because I have decades of experience with cowlicks and while I could nto cut someones hair, I certainly know what works and what does not work.
We particularly told Doctors what we wanted them to consider and not consider in diagnosing one of our daughters. I tell them that all the time in my personal issues. Do not pursue XXX or do any testing. We have already ruled that out. There is no point in chasing a diagnosis that has already been ruled out. Further we (wifey) had studied our daughters particular condition far more intensely than any doctor we ever encountered. Why? Dr.s study everything. My wife studied one particular condition. Likewise, my sister knows more about Lymes disease than most of the doctors she encounters. Why? Because she has had the disease for over 20 years and spend most of her life studying it and searching for any possible treatment or cure. How many doctors have studied Lymes disease exclusively for 20 years? Do the doctors listen? Absolutely - or we go elsewhere.
I tell our company chef different techniques I have used or seen used in cooking or tweaks to recipes. He never says shut up you are not a chef. He listens, sometimes writes things down, comes back with them the next week or month. Lots of people give him ideas and he dies not dismiss them because they are not chefs. He learns and broadens his knowledge, he tries things and sees how they turn out, and becomes a better chef.
I have only ridden a public bus about four times and that was 33 years ago, but taxi drivers? Yes I have told them better or faster ways to get where I am going. Why, I have gone there hundreds of times. I may know a better way. The will give it a try and if it works out, say thank you - now I am a better taxi driver for this location.
Working with contractors on our house, I frequently shared methods, tools, tricks with them that I learned from watching other contractors and they adopted them and became better contractors. Sometimes they tried it and said they did not like the method, but they never said "Where is your license? How dare you give me ideas" Sometimes I have even discussed things I thought were done improperly, they argues and the looked it up or learned from the inspector I was right. Not always, but they did not just dismiss the concept and walk away. They learned something new and became better contractors as a result.
A friend who is a professional painter taught me the correct way to paint. Later when I hired other painters, I saw them painting differently and told them what my friend taught me. They tried it and it worked better. Then one of those painters showed me a clever trick for cutting in, which I then showed my friend and he adopted and loves it. None of them said "You are not a professional painter - go away. All of us became better painters as a result (they are still both much better than I am but I was able to communicate ideas that improved their skills).
I teach people how to throw axes knives and atlatl. I and very proficient. However an 8 year old kid who was just learning, after I showed him the "right way" to throw knives said "I saw someone throwing them like this yesterday. I experimented with it and learned a cool new way to throw that I had never seen or heard of before.
In my profession do I listen to a client's proposed argument? Do I listen if they tell me something a previous lawyer did that worked? Absolutely. Clients often provide some remarkable insight or suggestions. Sometimes their ideas win the case and then i get to take credit for it. Sometimes even if I am uncertain of an idea or disagree with it, I still might give it a flier and see if it gets any traction. Sometimes I am surprised. I am not arrogant enough to think I know all there is to know about my profession. A young lawyer 1-5 years out of law schools would be an idiot to think they know anything at all. They need advice from every living being, but especially someone who has used services of 150 plus lawyers.
Likewise teachers are foolish to dismiss what parents have learned from other teachers, especially younger teachers, but any teacher. To think you know it all and cannot benefit from something different is the definition of stupid.
Teachers are the only profession where I have encountered this arrogance. I cannot think of anyone else who will not listen to suggestions, and even give it a try. For example, "We have learned that many kids learn better if material is presented in multiple ways not just audibly, but visually and tactically where possible. In classes where this was used, it worked great and all the kids learned a lot. Have ou ever heard of this?
"Don't tell me how to teach, I went to college and have been teaching for three years."
There is not one way to properly teach. There are thousands of differnt things that work and thousands that do not work. They do not teach these things in college and teachers do not much share ideas/experiences with each other. Many teachers, especially new teachers are out there trying things they learned in school that 50 other teachers have already figured out do not work. It sure would be nice if someone would tell therm it does not work and save them a few years of failure. Be nice if they would listen too.
So is there a single teacher out there who has worked with 150 teachers, watched their methods, seen what works and what does not work in their classrooms, talked with many of their students daily or at least monthly (not counting our own kids), watched them study, watched their progress in learning? If not, why would you not listen to someone who has?
Last edited by Coldjensens; 09-25-2017 at 05:32 PM..
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I feel for you as a doctor!
