Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Parents are in learning mode as much as students. It's the ones of either sort who see themselves as somehow special or entitled who cause all the problems.
God save and protect our teachers from the likes of those!
1. Teachers will know more about teaching than parents do. However, parents know more about their individual child than the teacher would. Parents and teachers need to see each other as partners, not as enemies.
2. It is understandable that in a group setting, it's not possible for a teacher to tailor the curriculum and teaching style to each individual student. However, certain aspects can be tailored to an individual. For example, when I was in elementary school, I was academically ahead of my peers but socially behind my peers. Therefore, I do not feel that it was appropriate to be isolated in the front of the bus, and not allowed to sit with other students for an entire school year as a punishment (for something I didn't even do, but that's beside the point), since what I needed was more social interaction, not less. However, that same punishment could have been effective for other students. Also, if a high achieving student (such as myself) asks a question that is beyond the curriculum, it is understandable that the teacher may not have the time to answer the question. But it is also not necessary for the teacher to yell at or to punish such students. At the very least, they should give a polite response, such as "That's beyond the scope of this class, but you'll learn it in 11th grade, and there are a lot of other things that you have to learn first". Or, even better, assign the student to do a research paper on that topic, perhaps in lieu of the next several homework assignments.
3. Different students are going to learn better from some styles of teaching than others. A good question is, which is more important: for students to be matched, as much as possible, with teachers with compatible learning styles, so that the student can reach his/her full potential? Or, is it more important for students to learn to adapt to teachers that they don't like and learning styles that aren't ideal for them? Most likely, a balance of the two is needed. But where do you draw that line? Note that I am not asking for teachers to modify their teaching style, but rather questioning whether or not students should be assigned to classes taught by teachers that already have their preferred teaching style.
4. People within any profession (not just teaching) are often trained to think alike. Sometimes, people from the outside see things from a different perspective, and may have ideas that are worth listening to. When I was in elementary school, a common punishment tactic was to punish all of the boys (never the girls) if even 1 person was misbehaving. It was clear that at some point, that was taught to teachers as an effective disciplinary technique. However, anybody who is not a teacher knows that's not an effective disciplinary technique, since it takes away any incentive to behave, knowing that you'd be punished anyway, and it turns the "good" kids against the teacher and administration. Again, this applies to every profession, not just teachers.
1. Teachers will know more about teaching than parents do. However, parents know more about their individual child than the teacher would. Parents and teachers need to see each other as partners, not as enemies.
2. It is understandable that in a group setting, it's not possible for a teacher to tailor the curriculum and teaching style to each individual student. However, certain aspects can be tailored to an individual. For example, when I was in elementary school, I was academically ahead of my peers but socially behind my peers. Therefore, I do not feel that it was appropriate to be isolated in the front of the bus, and not allowed to sit with other students for an entire school year as a punishment (for something I didn't even do, but that's beside the point), since what I needed was more social interaction, not less. However, that same punishment could have been effective for other students. Also, if a high achieving student (such as myself) asks a question that is beyond the curriculum, it is understandable that the teacher may not have the time to answer the question. But it is also not necessary for the teacher to yell at or to punish such students. At the very least, they should give a polite response, such as "That's beyond the scope of this class, but you'll learn it in 11th grade, and there are a lot of other things that you have to learn first". Or, even better, assign the student to do a research paper on that topic, perhaps in lieu of the next several homework assignments.
3. Different students are going to learn better from some styles of teaching than others. A good question is, which is more important: for students to be matched, as much as possible, with teachers with compatible learning styles, so that the student can reach his/her full potential? Or, is it more important for students to learn to adapt to teachers that they don't like and learning styles that aren't ideal for them? Most likely, a balance of the two is needed. But where do you draw that line? Note that I am not asking for teachers to modify their teaching style, but rather questioning whether or not students should be assigned to classes taught by teachers that already have their preferred teaching style.
4. People within any profession (not just teaching) are often trained to think alike. Sometimes, people from the outside see things from a different perspective, and may have ideas that are worth listening to. When I was in elementary school, a common punishment tactic was to punish all of the boys (never the girls) if even 1 person was misbehaving. It was clear that at some point, that was taught to teachers as an effective disciplinary technique. However, anybody who is not a teacher knows that's not an effective disciplinary technique, since it takes away any incentive to behave, knowing that you'd be punished anyway, and it turns the "good" kids against the teacher and administration. Again, this applies to every profession, not just teachers.
^^^Old, but probably within your days in school: Gender Bias in Education "However, the American Association of University Women published a report in 1992 indicating that females receive less attention from teachers and the attention that female students do receive is often more negative than attention received by boys. (Bailey, 1992) In fact, examination of the socialization of gender within schools and evidence of a gender biased hidden curriculum demonstrates that girls are shortchanged in the classroom. . . .The socialization of gender within our schools assures that girls are made aware that they are unequal to boys."
Perhaps you did not see the forest (boys and girls) for the trees (your attitude that you were being so discriminated against).
^^^Old, but probably within your days in school: Gender Bias in Education "However, the American Association of University Women published a report in 1992 indicating that females receive less attention from teachers and the attention that female students do receive is often more negative than attention received by boys. (Bailey, 1992) In fact, examination of the socialization of gender within schools and evidence of a gender biased hidden curriculum demonstrates that girls are shortchanged in the classroom. . . .The socialization of gender within our schools assures that girls are made aware that they are unequal to boys."
Perhaps you did not see the forest (boys and girls) for the trees (your attitude that you were being so discriminated against).
The teachers that I had very blatantly favored girls, and they made it very obvious. I had a few teachers even explicitly tell the class that they did not like boys. But this has nothing to do with the topic of this thread (I was just giving an example of a practice that is or was common in a particular profession, that everybody outside of that profession knows does not work; I did not intend to start another argument about gender issues), so if you want to continue arguing with me, it's probably best that we start a new thread.
Both of my kids have 504 plans, and while the majority of teachers we've had over the years seem open to my insights, it has been a nightmare to get the 504 accommodations actually followed. From talking with other parents, this experience doesn't seem unique to our family.
Most teachers cite that the student needs to be able to self-advocate as the reason why they don't make sure the 504 is being followed. From my experience, the disability itself, learning or otherwise often makes self-advocating difficult for adolescents. Usually by the time my kids have reached a point where they are willing to speak up for themselves, they are frustrated to the point where they come across as rude and then get in trouble for being disrespectful towards their teacher.
We've also have had a few problems with teachers that lie about have provided the accommodations for whatever reason. There is currently a thread on C-D where a teacher feels they are doing an honors student a disservice by following the 504 and unfortunately my kids have had teachers that appear to have that attitude and have been less than helpful to down right dishonest about providing accommodations.
We've had the best luck with teaching the kids to say to practice saying "I need extra time per my 504" when they need it, even if the teacher said "No extra time allowed, so don't ask". The other thing we have had good luck with is to have the kids take a picture of assignment instructions with their iphone/ipad. That way they have whatever written instructions that were provided for their reference and it has also been helpful in trying to address issues with teachers that are less than truthful.
We've run into a lot of teachers that aren't great at keeping syllabus or calendars up to date and having a picture of what (if anything) they wrote on the board helps a lot in determining if the accommodation of "provide clear written instructions for assignments" actually happened.
I find it a bit odd that you are attempting to give advice to college professors and maybe your children are incapable of having said conversations with the professors since you've been assistant teaching their entire collective lives. When and if they become employed are you going to call their manager when things aren't going as you planned?
I think the OP is asking if universities that teach schoolteachers tell those schoolteachers to listen to parents. Not that he/she is giving advice to college professors. Though since they give advice to everyone else, it's likely they advise the college professors as well...
Yes. I do not suggest ways they can fix it better, but I will tell them what worked before if the child had a simlar broken arm and they we healed properly.
<snip>
We particularly told Doctors what we wanted them to consider and not consider in diagnosing one of our daughters. I tell them that all the time in my personal issues. Do not pursue XXX or do any testing. We have already ruled that out. There is no point in chasing a diagnosis that has already been ruled out. Further we (wifey) had studied our daughters particular condition far more intensely than any doctor we ever encountered. Why? Dr.s study everything. My wife studied one particular condition. Likewise, my sister knows more about Lymes disease than most of the doctors she encounters. Why? Because she has had the disease for over 20 years and spend most of her life studying it and searching for any possible treatment or cure. How many doctors have studied Lymes disease exclusively for 20 years? Do the doctors listen? Absolutely - or we go elsewhere.
<snip>
It's entirely possible this broken arm isn't the same or even similar to the previous one. It's also possible the recommended treatment has changed. That does happen.
Seriously? Something can be ruled out one day, only to occur another day!
And does your wife have the background in anatomy, physiology, immunulogy, pharmacology, genetics, etc to understand this stuff totally?
I'm not going to get into it about Chronic Lyme, but while a doctor may not study Lyme exclusively, s/he does keep up with the latest if that's his/her field. There's a lot of nonsense out on the internet.
Just a few responses to areas I know something about.
Children have to know how to survive on their own. Neither of my parents ever went to a PTA meeting. My mother once met with a teacher who thought I was not behaving in class. Her comment after the meeting was, your teacher is a real bitc* but you better get along with her. I never want to waste my time with another meeting like that. I graduated from grammar school, high school, college and graduate school on my own steam.
With out kids we went to the PTA meetings but kept it short and sweet. One of our kids decided to go to college and graduated, the other two didn't graduate.
Parents forget school is just a preliminary stage to adulthood. Success in school doesn't always equate to success on the job. And parents can't come to the job to talk to their kids' supervisors.
Both of my kids have 504 plans, and while the majority of teachers we've had over the years seem open to my insights, it has been a nightmare to get the 504 accommodations actually followed. From talking with other parents, this experience doesn't seem unique to our family.
Most teachers cite that the student needs to be able to self-advocate as the reason why they don't make sure the 504 is being followed. From my experience, the disability itself, learning or otherwise often makes self-advocating difficult for adolescents. Usually by the time my kids have reached a point where they are willing to speak up for themselves, they are frustrated to the point where they come across as rude and then get in trouble for being disrespectful towards their teacher.
We've also have had a few problems with teachers that lie about have provided the accommodations for whatever reason. There is currently a thread on C-D where a teacher feels they are doing an honors student a disservice by following the 504 and unfortunately my kids have had teachers that appear to have that attitude and have been less than helpful to down right dishonest about providing accommodations.
We've had the best luck with teaching the kids to say to practice saying "I need extra time per my 504" when they need it, even if the teacher said "No extra time allowed, so don't ask". The other thing we have had good luck with is to have the kids take a picture of assignment instructions with their iphone/ipad. That way they have whatever written instructions that were provided for their reference and it has also been helpful in trying to address issues with teachers that are less than truthful.
We've run into a lot of teachers that aren't great at keeping syllabus or calendars up to date and having a picture of what (if anything) they wrote on the board helps a lot in determining if the accommodation of "provide clear written instructions for assignments" actually happened.
You are correct. This is a valid concern.
All too many times I had teachers who -- after a complaint was aired -- would respond by saying, "Well, in my judgement...", and I would have to tell them that in this situation, your "judgement" does not overrule federal special education law.
The other situation which it always reminded me of was when some teacher or counselor would come and say something like, "You know, I think there is a possibility of some child abuse..., but I'm not going to call it in because I don't want to cause any trouble." And again, I would have to go over the law with them and make it clear that if they don't call it in to CPS, then I will have to report that teacher to CPS.
The law is the law.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
