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The problem isn't that there aren't rules. The problem is that rules existing rules aren't enforced. The situation you've described is a failure, at multiple levels, to follow the simple rules that are expected in any school setting. You've described a school system that selectively applied and avoided an assortment of basic rules to implement a personality based negative outcome. There already are penalties for not following the rules but do no good if they aren't enforced. What you've described is not a teacher who was "firm but fair" but actually the opposite; someone who was lackadaisical and unfair in grading. And a school administration that was either too timid, or too lazy, to deal with an obvious problem. That can't be fixed by more standards and rules. That is fixed by better teachers and administrators.
I think the difference between the schools I attended vs yours (and other posters) is that I'm in an area with a very strong teachers' union, which dominates all local politics. The teacher's union effectively reduces the number of rules that teachers are required to follow, basically eliminates penalties for not following the few rules that do exist, and effectively turns tenure into ironclad job protection.
I think another major problem is the teachers who give everybody an A. Students and parents are never going to complain about such teachers. Especially not when a student has parents who, rightly or wrongly, demand that their kids get good grades at all costs. And, based on the grades, it appears that such teachers are doing their job, especially if they are otherwise good teachers, and the students get good grades on standardized tests. Since there are so many such teachers, it increases the impact on GPA of that one teacher who won't give A's. As I keep saying, it causes college admissions and scholarships, at the very top, to be determined by the noise rather than the signal.
We have stressed to our daughter who is now in middle school that getting the concept is more important than getting "the grade."
But, rightly or not, college admissions and scholarships are determined by "the grade", not 'getting the concept". Also, many parents (not saying you) claim that they want their kids to focus on learning rather than the grades, but then they yell at their children for anything less than an A, including in classes with teachers who absolutely don't give A's to anybody.
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As far as your friend getting C-s, all business owners I know did not get great grades in school. Something they seem to have in common are long-term goals and a good idea about concepts.
Another reason is that to be a business owner, you need to be a risk taker, but grades do not reward risk takers.
I think the difference between the schools I attended vs yours (and other posters) is that I'm in an area with a very strong teachers' union, which dominates all local politics. The teacher's union effectively reduces the number of rules that teachers are required to follow, basically eliminates penalties for not following the few rules that do exist, and effectively turns tenure into ironclad job protection.
I think another major problem is the teachers who give everybody an A. Students and parents are never going to complain about such teachers. Especially not when a student has parents who, rightly or wrongly, demand that their kids get good grades at all costs. And, based on the grades, it appears that such teachers are doing their job, especially if they are otherwise good teachers, and the students get good grades on standardized tests. Since there are so many such teachers, it increases the impact on GPA of that one teacher who won't give A's. As I keep saying, it causes college admissions and scholarships, at the very top, to be determined by the noise rather than the signal.
Another issue is that you presumably finished HS more than 20 years ago and things have changed since then in terms of what teacher are allowed to do. A lot of what was ok in 1995 would absolutely not fly today, regardless of teacher union status. Tbh, it really isn’t pertinent to talking about what is going on today. I had a lot of teachers who did stuff back in the ‘90s that absolutely would not be allowed today. I think we had one teacher who whacked us over the head with a rolled up magazine, so someone got her a foam bat to use instead. Can you imagine that happening now? I can’t, nor would I use it as any sort of example. She’s still teaching and has always been popular, so I assume that she retired that particular gem.
I think another major problem is the teachers who give everybody an A. Students and parents are never going to complain about such teachers. Especially not when a student has parents who, rightly or wrongly, demand that their kids get good grades at all costs.
How is somebody supposed to know if a teacher gives everybody an A? I have never heard this information disclosed anywhere.
Even if the principal knows about this, it is unlikely they would even tell you.
Why wouldn’t a student get an “A” if they get the concept?
Good question. Both my teachers and parents would accuse me of focusing on grades rather than learning. But if you learn the material and get an A, how is that focusing on grades rather than learning?
Another issue is that you presumably finished HS more than 20 years ago and things have changed since then in terms of what teacher are allowed to do. A lot of what was ok in 1995 would absolutely not fly today, regardless of teacher union status. Tbh, it really isn’t pertinent to talking about what is going on today. I had a lot of teachers who did stuff back in the ‘90s that absolutely would not be allowed today.
I disagree. Based on what I've seen, not much has changed at all. One of my colleagues had a daughter who was in elementary school during the pandemic. Her teacher outright refused to do any remote teaching at all, while still collecting her 6 figure salary. My colleague complained, and he was told that since the union contract says nothing about remote learning, there is nothing that they can do to force that teacher to do any remote teaching. And, even if they could do something, she has tenure, so there is nothing they can do anyway.
I assume that you don't live in an area with a strong teachers' union.
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I think we had one teacher who whacked us over the head with a rolled up magazine, so someone got her a foam bat to use instead. Can you imagine that happening now? I can’t, nor would I use it as any sort of example. She’s still teaching and has always been popular, so I assume that she retired that particular gem.
Teachers who are "popular" tend to get away with a lot of things, especially if the people they pick on are unpopular. People just assume that the student is the problem.
How is somebody supposed to know if a teacher gives everybody an A? I have never heard this information disclosed anywhere.
Even if the principal knows about this, it is unlikely they would even tell you.
Word gets around. If they give an A to students who know that they did less than A work, such students will know that they give everybody or almost everybody an A, and word will get around.
Word gets around. If they give an A to students who know that they did less than A work, such students will know that they give everybody or almost everybody an A, and word will get around.
If my kid was attending a school where that was common, then I would try to get him or her into a better school.
You don't learn anything in an environment where nobody is challenged.
Teaching and learning are collaborative, co + labor, both working. Look outside the US? I've heard that students in France routinely have 2 hours of homework per evening. A quick google...
Sounds like the U.S. system is on a "race to the bottom."
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