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What's changed is that "school" bullying has extended to out of school due to social media. What is it then when someone sends out a Tik-Tok, You Tube video, etc.? Should the schools be enabled to monitor student accounts? That already happens on school issued equipment in systems with the IT firepower to do so.
What happened at school to that girl was past "bullying" but a beat down.
And again, the question becomes one of where does the school's responsibility begin and end? Getting off the bus? On-line at home? Where?
All good questions. But you didn’t even attempt to answer my original question: what shkukd a bullying victim do? And it seems you are basically saying that there is nothing a bullying victim can do, since however the school’s jurisdiction is defined, bullies will find a way to bully just outside the school’s jurisdiction.
All good questions. But you didn’t even attempt to answer my original question: what shkukd a bullying victim do? And it seems you are basically saying that there is nothing a bullying victim can do, since however the school’s jurisdiction is defined, bullies will find a way to bully just outside the school’s jurisdiction.
Where are you getting that? Why do you never understand what's plainly written? You totally missed from both Phetaroi and I that schools are now mandated to follow up on every bullying report whether legitimate or not.
And yes, does the school's jurisdiction extend to out of school incidents? Or should it?
My guess is that little has changed. The politicians make the right noises but teachers handling actual pupils, with some shining exceptions tend not to get involved. I went to a recent "celebration" of one of those teacher's life, from Academic 1970-1. Others, even in that Eighth Grade year, were at best indifferent and and worst enabling. What has changed is that Special Needs services have improved. That doesn't handle the problems of students who are too-well adjusted to qualify for those classes.
Does that include Facebook hazing? That can be pretty brutal as well.
You are grasping at straws. You struck out with the idea that middle school students had to invite whole classes of kids to their private homes for a birthday party (pretty bizarre concept when it's possible that a kid could have as many as 150 kids in their classes over a school day).
So now you want to suddenly bring Facebook into it. Well, I'll tell you about a somewhat similar incident. I had a parent come in and ask me what I was going to do about "THE" website. "What website?" "The website called 'The ******* and ho's of ---------- Middle School'". Hadn't heard about that. So we got the school board attorneys involved along with central office personnel. And the decision was that legally we had not recourse UNLESS the website was created at school on school computers. We confirmed that it was not completed during school hours or on school computers. So we were dead in the water. Except we weren't. And the kids involved in this cyber bullying were pretty smart. They had their evil little website on the servers of 2 different web hosting services. I called the first web hosting company and they said they would take the website down within 3 hours because it violated the TOS that clients signed when they signed up. The second company were very hesitant to do so, despite their TOS, but after a bit of coaxing agreed to take the second website down. But it had nothing to do with our legal ability to get involved because, according to the school board attorneys, it was a freedom of speech issue that did not take place in school or on school property. Whether all attorneys would agree with that, I don't know.
But I'll toss in another not-bullying situation. There was a time when I wanted to press charges against a student for a certain matter. The answer I was given IN COURT was that no school employees or officials were the "injured party". The parents could press charges against the other student(s). Again, this was not a bullying situation.
Where are you getting that? Why do you never understand what's plainly written? You totally missed from both Phetaroi and I that schools are now mandated to follow up on every bullying report whether legitimate or not.
And yes, does the school's jurisdiction extend to out of school incidents? Or should it?
In my view, school business is school business. For things that do not involve the school, parents have the legal right to pursue legal recourse. But the problem is that all too many parents don't want to be 'the bad guy'. They want the school to be 'the bad guy'. There were quite a few times I had parents come in and demand action about something involving kids, but NOT involving the school, but then say that they "don't want to get involved". Bizarre.
In my view, school business is school business. For things that do not involve the school, parents have the legal right to pursue legal recourse. But the problem is that all too many parents don't want to be 'the bad guy'. They want the school to be 'the bad guy'. There were quite a few times I had parents come in and demand action about something involving kids, but NOT involving the school, but then say that they "don't want to get involved". Bizarre.
And you well know that it's done intentionally. They want the school to fix out of school issues of every type. Like the parents who drop their kids off on No School For Student in-service days because they don't trust them to be home alone or even on weather closures because they don't want to deal with them at home for the day.
Where are you getting that? Why do you never understand what's plainly written? You totally missed from both Phetaroi and I that schools are now mandated to follow up on every bullying report whether legitimate or not.
And yes, does the school's jurisdiction extend to out of school incidents? Or should it?
I guess you don’t plan to answer my original question: what should bullying victims do?
NJ school where teen Adriana Kuch was bullied has disturbing past, critics say (link), see also Four students charged in vicious beating of Adriana Kuch before 14-year-old’s suicide (link)
I am 65, and went to school long before anti-bullying efforts became fashionable. When I was in school, bullying, then called scapegoating or hazing was rife, both in school and in summer camps. Typically, little to nothing was done, until ironically the intended victim fought back. Then it was a problem, since it was a fight rather than a one-way victimization.
Hazing is ritual, not bullying.
Bullying went and still goes unchecked because it is not reported. Knowledge is not imputed and school administrators do not have ESP so unless someone reports it, they cannot act on it.
Then, as now, part of the issue is always "Who are we talking about?"
Because if the accused is from an upstanding family pillar of the community and all, the school administration is less inclined to act than if it's a kid from the wrong side of the tracks that everyone loves to beat up on anyway.
When I was a freshman, the seniors on the football team held us down and smeared peanut butter on our underarms.
It took hours to get that crap off and no I didn't shoot up the school.
When my parents were interviewing for a sleepaway camp for me, the director told us "we don't tolerate hazing." When my parents drove me home I asked what that meant and they said, basically "teasing", which is what they used to, circa 1971, call "bullying."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Bullying went and still goes unchecked because it is not reported. Knowledge is not imputed and school administrators do not have ESP so unless someone reports it, they cannot act on it.
If the schools are saying that it is sanctimonious BS. When someone comes in from recess crying, you don't think they know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
Then, as now, part of the issue is always "Who are we talking about?"
Because if the accused is from an upstanding family pillar of the community and all, the school administration is less inclined to act than if it's a kid from the wrong side of the tracks that everyone loves to beat up on anyway.
In my experience that wasn't true. When I experienced in, most of those years, 1964-71, the elementary/junior high school was pretty homogeneous, about 80% Jewish, and maybe one or two better off than average, one or two less well off than average. The last year that happened to me, Ninth Grade, 1971-2, the "right side of the tracks" people had generally matured past that stage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea
When I was a freshman, the seniors on the football team held us down and smeared peanut butter on our underarms.
It took hours to get that crap off and no I didn't shoot up the school.
We had none of that, though I suppose we practiced on athletic fields far separated from the seniors for a reason.
I guess you don’t plan to answer my original question: what should bullying victims do?
That’s not the topic of this OP, which is how schools handle bullying.
In response to the other poster’s comment about hazing, I remember when I was in HS we were told hazing was not tolerated. There was a ritual for new students to the school, who were either freshman or sophomores at the time. In reality, it was only the very small students who got hazed because it was pretty hard to tell who was a 9th or 10th grader otherwise.
As to jbgusa’s comment about his parents described it, that’s just what parents do. They aren’t necessarily giving you a long, dictionary or textbook definition and telling a kid it is bullying does the job.
That’s not the topic of this OP, which is how schools handle bullying.
I think we all know the answer there: schools give lip service to how bullying won't be tolerated, but in practice they look the other way, and punish the bullying victims, never the bullies. Since we cannot control how the schools handle it, I think a more useful question is, what can bullying victims (and/or their parents) do?
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