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If someone feels homeschooling is somehow not right for them they really do not need provable facts to make a decision about homeschooling for them or their family. Nobody should do something simply because there are some facts out there supporting it. We are not computers. We need to take human factors into consideration when making decisions about human beings.
I totally agree. The decision needs to be based on a number of factors including locality, faith base, the education the parent has and the personality of the child. I raised three kids....only one had the personality of a child who would have thrived in a home school situation. The other two would have been bored without the social interaction of a whole class.
I don't think there is a right or wrong or better or worse decision regarding a child's education. Each situation has to be evaluated individually.
whoa....I am certain that what I wrote did not imply one way or another whether I was infavor of homeschool or public school. I was very neutral...on pupose.
I said I thought there was a difference in being socialized and learning social skills or having social competence. I said that it can be done both in the home school situation and in the public school situation. I did not say it was bad that peers were hand picked by the parent. I was merely pointing out that it is different when a child goes out and makes a friend without any adult influence.
To the person who messaged me stating that the administration hand picks who a childs friends are by placing them in class together. That is wrong------just because the kids are in class does not mean they are friends. They are just in the same place at the same time. I do not think it is wrong to hand select who children interact with at all.I never stated that. I just think there is an inherent difference in a playdate and pressured friendship than when a child picks a person he/she is interested in from a class and tries to develop a friendship. of course this can happen in a class out side of school.
To those who say they have a problem with only interacting with people who are the same age...well--if you went to public school--it did fine for you so why is not good enough for your children? You obviously can interact with people who are of different ages do you not think your child will learn that as well? I do not understand that argument.
I think your idea of neutral and my idea are very different if you think you sounded like you didn't pick a stance on homeschooling. This is what you said in your last post:
"I think that there is a difference in being able to cope socially and being socialized.
Socializing a child is done by going places, having scheduled playdates, attending a structured activity/class. To me does not teach social coping skills. These things are set up by the adult.The adult chooses the kids who are involved. The adult is not far away to interpert for a child or assist when something breaks down.
It is much different if the child goes into a spontaneous situation and finds a friend all on his her own. That is what needs to be learned. It can be done without having to send your child to school/daycare, but it is harder. Children play so much differently when an adult is not within arms reach and to me that is social coping. To be able to navigate a situation with peers without an adult right there.
Now I could be wrong and have my terms mixed up but this is my train of thought."
Well, your first post contradicts your most recent one. Your highlighted statements seem to be saying to me that since homeschoolers have many situations like you described, they are not learning social coping skills. How does your original post say that it is okay for parents to choose the kids who are involved? You are still implying that all homeschooling parents are hovering over their kids and that they never have the opportunity to choose friends for themselves.
How is it that dropping a kid in a class with kids his own age, where socializing is at a minimum, is better than spending a day with 30 or so other various-age homeschoolers, where you would be free to interact and "choose" whatever friends you want? How is that a "pressured friendship/playdate"? There isn't any guarantee that children in your school setting would have better luck finding friends in a classroom anyway. Like you rightly pointed out, they are just in the same place at the same time; social interactions, from what I remember about school, are not highly encouraged.
As for why I feel that it is better to have children exposed to people of all ages, as opposed to children in the same age bracket, well that is how life is, isn't it? I don't spend my day interacting with people that are the exact age as me, so that is how homeschooling helps to prepare children for REAL life, contrary to school situations. How is it not hand picking who your child can be friends with if their only choices are the kids in their class during a 6.5 hour school day? Those ARE their only choices for friends, so of course that is partially picked by the school and parent! And Heaven help the child that doesn't mesh well with anyone in his class!
Finally to answer your question about why, if it was good enough for me as child, why is it not good enough for my children? WEll, most parents that I know want better things for their kids than they had. Just because it was "good enough" for us, doesn't mean we find it "good enough" for our kids. That just goes to show how the public school system has done a bang-up job of brainwashing people into thinking that there is only one right way to do things, if you ask me!
Homeschoolers are learning, living, working and playing in the real world everyday, not the phony world that school provides. Teachers, parents and administrators have provided them with their only choices for playmates, so of course they have to choose friends from that group. Schooled kids are stuck having to make friends with peers who just so happen to be born in the same year as them-- not exactly teaching a very broad range of social skills if you ask me. Homeschoolers get to be friends with people of all ages and from all walks of life. Show me a schooled child that can say the same thing.
Home schooled children and p. schooled children have the same opportunities to meet and befriend people of all ages and backgrounds. Just because my children attended a public school does not mean they were restricted to knowing only age-mate peers. They met people through church, athletics, afterschool social activities, in fact they met people in many of the same types of situations that home schooled children meet people. My son has a very good friend who is home schooled that he met during one such activity.
It is extremely easy for children from both groups to meet others and socailize, in all kinds of activities that will bring them into contact with all kinds of people. I think it has a whole lot more to do with the effort any parent makes to expose their children to different experiances, than it has to do with home schooled vs. public/private schooled.
Home schooled children and p. schooled children have the same opportunities to meet and befriend people of all ages and backgrounds. Just because my children attended a public school does not mean they were restricted to knowing only age-mate peers. They met people through church, athletics, afterschool social activities, in fact they met people in many of the same types of situations that home schooled children meet people. My son has a very good friend who is home schooled that he met during one such activity.
It is extremely easy for children from both groups to meet others and socailize, in all kinds of activities that will bring them into contact with all kinds of people. I think it has a whole lot more to do with the effort any parent makes to expose their children to different experiances, than it has to do with home schooled vs. public/private schooled.
I don't disagree with you. My kids are friends with many kids that go to school. My point is that it is not ONLY schooled children that have opportunities to socialize. My problem is with the people who are claiming that school is the ONLY way to provide social coping situations for children. Just like your kids have many experiences with other children, so do mine. Your kids are very lucky that you help to provide them with opportunities to spend time with many different people. Not all public schoolers have that opportunity after 35 hours of school each week. Many parents use school, where you do only ge tto associate with kids your own age, as the only "social" activity and then call homeschoolers unsocialized. No offense to you, I just get tired of it!
and need I remind you that a 'fact' is in reality an overwhelming agreement of an opinion? This rock is hard. Why is it hard? Because everyone has agreed that the rock is hard.
People at one point agreed that the world was flat. That made it no flatter than it is today.
Quote:
There is nothing to explain. I read something that you posted, and this is the image that formed in my head.
And the image that pops into mine? Well, that's not really relevant here.
Your initial statement was that someone was using EMOTIONS to form their opinion on an issue. What you are describing above is not the same. You are describing someone who is just making up nonsense. There is a huge difference between making up nonsense and making a decision based on emotion (or intuition).
Please explain this huge difference.
Quote:
Basing a decision only on provable facts can often lead us to make poorer decisions than we might have made had we listened to our own intuition, which is emotional and NOT based on facts. If someone or something makes us uncomfortable then we should pay attention to that internal radar that tells us something is just not right.
I would argue that if someone or something is making one uncomfortable, it is because of specific data -- data that individually might be so seemingly irrelevant that it might be discarded -- but data nevertheless. Therefore, I would argue that what appears to be "intuition" is survival-level reason.
The difference is that the example you gave is not based on opinion, emotion, fact or anything. It is a statement of something that can not ever happen. The statement you made is not really an opinion (the walk on water part). It is something that can never happen. Saying that you do/don't want to homeschool your children is a decision that needs to be based on many different inputs. Not all of the inputs will be verifiable facts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wallace
I would argue that if someone or something is making one uncomfortable, it is because of specific data -- data that individually might be so seemingly irrelevant that it might be discarded -- but data nevertheless. Therefore, I would argue that what appears to be "intuition" is survival-level reason.
You can receive feedback from someone that causes you to be uncomfortable around them. I agree that the input is a form of data. But it is not a verifiable fact. I agree that there is reasoning employed, but it is not "fact based" reasoning. It would be a huge mistake to base decisions only on verifiable facts.
Some years ago I was discussing home schooling with the girlfriend that I had at the time. We weighed the pros and cons and ultimately decided that if we were to ever have children, our children would go to a public or private school.
The catalyst that lead to this decision was that we both felt (and I still do) that the social interactions our kids would have with other children far out-weighed everything else. It is not a matter of being right or wrong; we just sensed that home schooled kids were missing out on some crucial part of childhood as well as developing societal skills. Sure, our kids would be able to interact with other kids in the neighborhood or maybe even the children of our friends, but that seems different.
So, if you home school, how do you feel about this? Do you also make sure that your children socialize with other kids, or are they isolated?
NOT writing this in a mean tone!!
Just bringing up some important thought joggers.
I think you can answer your own question. It requires thinking outside the box of the public school mentality. (I went to ps)
How did you feel when you were left out of something at school? Did you feel socialized?
How did you feel when someone wrote a nasty note about you?
What about being picked for a sports team, at gym? Ever get left out, or picked last? (What exactly does that teach, about socialization?)
How did you feel when you asked a question, and was made to feel stupid for asking? (Is that social?)
Or, how about the nasty name calling in the halls, while on the way to your next class?
Yea, and cliques are great, they are so applicable to real life. I so, ONLY hang out with the (druggies, jocks, nerds, etc..), in my day to day life.
What I learned about socialization-----> gossip, cliques, how to drink, smoke, party, sex, drugs, (whether I want to know or not) fight, who was cool & who wasn't, etc...
For your other question: Do you also make sure that your children socialize with other kids, or are they isolated?
My kids are VERY socialized in the true sense of the word. They socialize with ALL ages, races, cultures, etc...
Here are just SOME of their socialization activities, we are doing or have done.
book group (middle grades)
book group (teens)
homeschool bowing league on Thursdays
Post war history classes Wednesday
Pirate history classes Wednesday
dodge-ball with the town rec. dept. Fri
dance Thursday night
geocaching
letterboxing
writing class
archeology
museums
karate
bike riding the Cape Cod Canal with their 80 y.o. pop-pop
shopping with an elderly neighbor (she lost her hubby and has never had a license)
We need to make sure that we get our school work done, we are so busy, sometimes we need to finish after supper!!
You will find many homeschoolers are well socialized. Personally, I require that my kids answer a question posed by an adult. They are not allowed to say "whatever", shrug, yep, uh hu, mmmm.... I hate that!
There are other examples of the NOT so socialized homeschooler. I have seen them, on occasion. I've seen adults that have NO social skills whatsoever, as well. VERY SAD!
My question is, What about the kid that is in p.s., but is socially withdrawn? They are in p.s., yet THEY chose not to be socialized?????? WHAT??
What chance do they have? I'm sure some "well socialized" kid from their p.s., will be right over to knock on their door! NOT!!
Socialization and homeschoolers, opens up a HUGE can of worms... and really who wants worms in a can??? LOL
I hope you can see what I was getting at. I love/hate that this comes up so often.
It is a great way to see other view points on this topic. There are many that may disagree with me, that's O.K., I don't mind!
These are just my opinions on this, I hope they are helpful. (see u in ME)
Ok dude, I don't bother to read every single thread on here that deals with home schooling because I have never been home schooled, nor do I have, nor would I, home school my children; so excuse my (insert expletive)ing dead horse of a thread because I didn't know that this topic has been around the loop so many times. But, if you read my OP, then you would realize that I am not debating home schooling vs. not home schooling; I was simply asking if home schooled children had the same opportunities to meet/get to know/hang out with a variety of other children. That is all. I am not interested in your politics or reasons for home schooling. Apparently I touched a nerve. Lame.
Like you, I don't bother to read every single thread on here...so forgive me if this has already been similarly mentioned here:
Your question certainly touched a nerve. However, if you consider your actual question, you might also consider the reaction you got was not "lame" really at all.
The viewpoint that schooling at school provides socialization, but schooling at home *might* not provide socialization, does imply that schooling at home involves living in isolation or without any interaction with kids. It's akin to asking a child schooled at school whether or not he or she gets the same opportunities for sleep as a homeschooler. Such a viewpoint would imply that because there are no beds, schedules tailored for sleep, or bedtime routines provided by a ready-made institutional format, then the children attending school *might* not get opportunities for sleep equal to those of homeschoolers.
Just something to think about.
Last edited by casualremark; 04-12-2011 at 10:44 AM..
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