Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-07-2009, 03:27 PM
 
Location: So Ca
26,720 posts, read 26,793,862 times
Reputation: 24785

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by pll View Post
She reads at grade level but she has a hard time with comprehension and her spelling is bad when writing sentences.
We moved when our son was in 2nd grade and he went from an average reader to the lowest in his class. He was a horrible speller. He ended up in a combo 2/3 class where the teacher, thankfully, gave us a lot of suggestions. He had to read aloud to us every night for 20 minutes from a book of his choice. He signed up for the library's summer reading program, and by the middle of the next year he was one of his class's top readers. More importantly, he developed a lifelong love of reading.

Quote:
I have asked myself which is worse getting poor grades all the time or making new friends and changing schools? A child going through this is already feeling poorly about themself every time they get a paper back....
A student with a June birthday used to be in the middle of her class; that student is now at the youngest end. So she's already competing against kids who've had the advantage of being more mature phsyically, emotionally and intellectually beginning in kindergarten and you are right that it does and will continue to affect her self esteem in an enormous way. I'm with you....a child can probably make friends anywhere but she is not necessarily going to gain academic self confidence--which is crucial--unless the playing field is leveled for her.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-07-2009, 05:48 PM
pll pll started this thread
 
1,112 posts, read 2,485,903 times
Reputation: 1130
Thanks for your support.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2009, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,530,712 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
Here's a more recent study that states that researchers usually interpret their findings as support for the effectiveness of certain practices.
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/2006064.pdf
Never doubted that. However, there is little to support retention as being good for the student in the long run and what there is pertains to retention for social/emotional reasons not academic. There's more than one study out there that shows retention to be harmful in the long run. Problem is, teachers and parents alike don't want to hear it. Retention is the easy way out. Just hold the kid back. Problem solved, only it's not solved. It comes back and worse the second time.

Did you look at the drop out rates with retentions? That's scary.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2009, 04:56 PM
pll pll started this thread
 
1,112 posts, read 2,485,903 times
Reputation: 1130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Never doubted that. However, there is little to support retention as being good for the student in the long run and what there is pertains to retention for social/emotional reasons not academic. There's more than one study out there that shows retention to be harmful in the long run. Problem is, teachers and parents alike don't want to hear it. Retention is the easy way out. Just hold the kid back. Problem solved, only it's not solved. It comes back and worse the second time.

Did you look at the drop out rates with retentions? That's scary.
I'm so glad my choices in life aren't determined by the latest research. That would be a scary thought. Every decade, or even every year the "experts" change their minds. Ugh! It's enough to make your head spin.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2009, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,530,712 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by pll View Post
I'm so glad my choices in life aren't determined by the latest research. That would be a scary thought. Every decade, or even every year the "experts" change their minds. Ugh! It's enough to make your head spin.....
Even when tons of research say grade retention doesn't work for the student? And the experts have been saying this for a long time. Unfortunately, it goes against popular opinion of parents and teachers alike. Sadly, too many want the easy way out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2009, 05:44 PM
pll pll started this thread
 
1,112 posts, read 2,485,903 times
Reputation: 1130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Even when tons of research say grade retention doesn't work for the student? And the experts have been saying this for a long time. Unfortunately, it goes against popular opinion of parents and teachers alike. Sadly, too many want the easy way out.
Maybe because I'm living proof that the experts were WRONG. I was retained in 3rd grade my hubby in kindergarten. We turned out just fine...thank you very much. LOL.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-08-2009, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,530,712 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by pll View Post
Maybe because I'm living proof that the experts were WRONG. I was retained in 3rd grade my hubby in kindergarten. We turned out just fine...thank you very much. LOL.
One person's results don't disprove the norm. Grade retention does work when it's for social/emotional reasons. I just doesn't, usually, work for academic reasons.

Logically, the problem with grade retention is it just gives the student more of what resulted in their failure in the first place. If you don't address the cause of the failure, it won't work. If the cause of the failure is immaturity, then grade retention will work. If it's because the child is a differential learner, it won't.

I have a brother for whom grade retention was a disaster. Since you results prove it works, I guess his prove it doesn't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2009, 09:25 AM
 
Location: So Ca
26,720 posts, read 26,793,862 times
Reputation: 24785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Even when tons of research say grade retention doesn't work for the student? Sadly, too many want the easy way out.
I'm not sure I agree that retention is the "easy way out." If it were, retention would be much more common. Most parents don't retain their children for a variety of reasons, most of which are emotional (social stigma). And many are in a rush to move their child on, especially in the lower grades. Since the parent has the final word, and most parents are not educators, the student gets moved ahead when it is not always to his/her benefit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2009, 09:58 AM
pll pll started this thread
 
1,112 posts, read 2,485,903 times
Reputation: 1130
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
I'm not sure I agree that retention is the "easy way out." If it were, retention would be much more common. Most parents don't retain their children for a variety of reasons, most of which are emotional (social stigma). And many are in a rush to move their child on, especially in the lower grades. Since the parent has the final word, and most parents are not educators, the student gets moved ahead when it is not always to his/her benefit.
I agree. I think moving them ahead when they aren't ready is the easy way out.

My daughters teacher (btw, who has a brother that was retained in 6th grade and now has an engineering degree) suggested that the kids who were retained and ended up h.s. drop outs probably would have anyway whether they were retained or not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-10-2009, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,530,712 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
I'm not sure I agree that retention is the "easy way out." If it were, retention would be much more common. Most parents don't retain their children for a variety of reasons, most of which are emotional (social stigma). And many are in a rush to move their child on, especially in the lower grades. Since the parent has the final word, and most parents are not educators, the student gets moved ahead when it is not always to his/her benefit.
It's the easy way out in that it doesn't require extra effort on the part of parents or teachers. Just retain the child and teach as usual.

What has been shown to work is promotion with intervention to address the student's unique issues. That takes extra effort.

The only time retention makes sense is when the student is immature socially or emotionally or simply needs time to develop the skills needed to succeed. If they can learn the material with intervention, that would be best for them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top