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Here's my take. Obama is no Bill Clinton, or even a Joe Biden. He is not congenitally extraverted. He can perform and speechify as we all know,supremely well when called for, but then he likes to get back to work. He is more serious and not as inclined to charm and "win every room," so Romney is gaining. But I think when the voters get a chance to see the two men side by side, the intellect, character, charisma, and authenticity of Obama will ring through again. He is the real deal, and he is trying to do his job. Is he perfect? No. Has he made errors? Yes. But he is a terrific leader, and after W, that has been much needed. That is why most of the hyperpartisan people ragging on him day in and day out seem like watery-eyed, yapping chihuahuas with a perpetual case of fear aggression.
And despite the cheerleading, I think we all know by now that Romney is not of the same caliber.
Here's my take. Obama is no Bill Clinton, or even a Joe Biden. He is not congenitally extraverted. He can perform and speechify as we all know,supremely well when called for, but then he likes to get back to work. He is more serious and not as inclined to charm and "win every room," so Romney is gaining. But I think when the voters get a chance to see the two men side by side, the intellect, character, charisma, and authenticity of Obama will ring through again. He is the real deal, and he is trying to do his job. Is he perfect? No. Has he made errors? Yes. But he is a terrific leader, and after W, that has been much needed. That is why most of the hyperpartisan people ragging on him day in and day out seem like watery-eyed, yapping chihuahuas with a perpetual case of fear aggression.
And despite the cheerleading, I think we all know by now that Romney is not of the same caliber.
Ummm...all Obama is doing is campaiging. He is a "terrific leader"? HA. Americans don't see him that way anymore. Obama is authentic and has good character? LOL. All he cares about is being able to keep his job. That's it. Romney is, IMO, clearly quite a bit smarter than Obama.
You got one thing right - Romney and Obama are not of the same caliber, but the comparison is completely opposite from my perspective of course. If you really think the majority of Americans believe that Obama is still some great hope, that is hilarious.
The reality is Obama cannot win if his approval remains as low as it is unless third parties have an exceptionally good year. And his approval is unlikely to come up unless the economy improves significantly. A majority of Americans do not approve of the job he is doing and a majority do not feel he deserves to be re-elected.
I generally respect your contribution to the forum, even if we usually disagree, and I think you are an intelligent person, but I also get the impression you almost have somewhat of a "crush" on Obama and you clearly have an extreme sense of entitlement for him to be re-elected. And you know there's a good chance he won't be, yet you still feel entitled for him to be - so you think the Republicans should simply "concede" the election (I will not participate in that thread). You talk about how partisan others are, but you are clearly quite partisan yourself. Obama is amazing and wonderful in your mind and Romney is terrible, as are all Republicans. I do get the impression you are a fair person and I think you may not even realize how partisan you're being.
Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 06-13-2012 at 10:56 PM..
Ummm...all Obama is doing is campaiging. He is a "terrific leader"? HA. Americans don't see him that way anymore. Obama is authentic and has good character? LOL. All he cares about is being able to keep his job. That's it. Romney is clearly quite a bit smarter than Obama.
You got one thing right - Romney and Obama are not of the same caliber, but the comparison is completely opposite from my perspective of course.
The reality is Obama cannot win if his approval remains as low as it is unless third parties have an exceptionally good year. A majority of Americans do not approve of the job he is doing and a majority do not feel he deserves to be re-elected.
I generally respect your contribution to the forum, even if we usually disagree, and I think you are an intelligent person, but I also get the impression you almost have somewhat of a "crush" on Obama. You clearly have a sense of entitlement for him to be re-elected.
Well, it is good to have some anxiety at this point, to inspire the hard work it will take.
Yes, I like Obama. He is intelligent, and I think he wants to improve the country. Now, when 9/11 occurred (despite considerable evidence it could have been averted if the Bush Administration had now blown off the Clinton Administration memos about OBL), W enjoyed bipartisan support. We all knew it was a crisis, and we pulled together for the country. Compare that with the fiscal crisis. The GOP has done everything possible to undermine the President, who was dealt a terrible, terrible hand, throughout the whole recession. And we are suffering greatly as a nation, but destroying Obama is the only thing they bring to the table. Obstructing and generally acting like *******s, trying to say Obama is a terrible leader. It is mean spirited and just gross. They don't give a damn about this country.
You have me right on one account. I like Obama. I appreciate intellect, statemenship, and a conciliatory, but firm tone in a President. But my admiration for Obama pales in comparison to my visceral disgust with the GOP base over the last several years. They gave us Bush/Cheney and they have the ballz to complain about Obama/Biden? That is like comparing a rabid air dale to a cocker spaniel. Obama has not done anything remotely as outrageous as his predecessors, but the GOP can fabricate outrage far better. Screw them and the horse they rode up on. They have acted like complete a-holes.
I have no beef with moderate conservatives capable of rational thought and who will admit a screw up and suggest a compromise or a course correction. The perpetually outraged, but increasingly deranged right wing flank has earned my contempt.
Yes, I like Obama. He is intelligent, and I think he wants to improve the country.
I agree that he's intelligent. I simply think Romney is more intelligent. I agree that Obama wants to improve the country, but I think his ideas are exactly what the country does not need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
Now, when 9/11 occurred (despite considerable evidience it could have been averted if the Bush Administration had now blown off the Clinton Administration memos about OBL) W enjoyed bipartisan support. We all knew it was a crisis, and we pulled together. Compare that with the fiscal crisis. The GOP has done everything possible to undermine the President, who was dealt a terrible, terrible hand. And we are suffering greatly as a nation. Obstructing and generally acting like *******s, then trying to say Obama is a terrible leader, while trotting out a chorus of goons,culminating in Mr. 1% himself is pretty rich.
Everyone agreed on what needed to be done after 9/11. People disagree on how to deal with fiscal crises. Obama refuses to consider Republican proposals, which is ironic given that he constantly calls for compromise. To Obama compromise only means agreeing with what he and other Democrats want.
Obama is a 1%er himself you know....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
You have me right on one account. I like Obama. I appreciate intellect, statemenship, and a conciliatory, but firm tone in a President.
And I don't agree that Obama exhibits these traits - at least not to the extent I want a president to exhibit them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
But my admiration for Obama pales in comparison to my visceral disgust with the GOP base over the last several years. They gave us Bush/Cheney and they have the ballz to complain about Obama/Biden? Screw them and the horse they rode up on. They have acted like complete a-holes. Seriously.
Obama has been worse than W IMO. But, we agree that W was not a good president.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddlehead
I have no beef with moderate conservatives capable or rational thought and who will admit a screw up. The perpetually outraged, but increasingly deranged right wing flank has earned my contempt.
Yet, you support a party that panders to them. Why?
Because I agree with the party on most issues...
If I agree with the Republican Party 80% of the time and the Democratic Party 20% of the time, which party am I going to support?
Hell, I agree with even the more extreme wing on most of the fiscal issues, but I do believe they should be more open to compromise. I do not agree with them on some of the social issues.
If I agree with the Republican Party 80% of the time and the Democratic Party 20% of the time, which party am I going to support?
Hell, I agree with even the more extreme wing on most of the fiscal issues, but I do believe they should be more open to compromise. I do not agree with them on the social issues for the most part.
You're in a tough spot. We desparately need moderate conservatives, but the right wing of your part has gotten so outrageous and has build a cuccoon so impermeable to fact, that rewarding them with power is dangerous.
Might better to join in with the centrist elements (independents and center to center left Dems) to put forward good ideas and put COMPETENT people in positions of power. The far right has been ****ting on you moderates for over a decade. Embrace the center!
You're in a tough spot. We desparately need moderate conservatives, but the right wing of your part has gotten so outrageous and has build a cuccoon so impermeable to fact, that rewarding them with power is dangerous.
Might better to join in with the centrist elements (independents and center to center left Dems) to put forward good ideas and put COMPETENT people in positions of power. The far right has been ****ting on you moderates for over a decade. Embrace the center!
It is where reality lies!
Which is why I supported a man who was the governor of one of the most liberal states in the country for my party's nomination for president...and, yes, he is competent. Even Bill Clinton seems to think so. FYI - I wouldn't vote in the presidential election this year if Santorum somehow had managed to get the nomination. And I would have had to really, really hold my nose to vote for Newt.
I am not center left - I am center right and I will not support a party if a segment of it thinks demonizing capitalism is appropriate (yes, the Obama campaign has done this; no, he is not a socialist, marxist, or communist, but he is willing to demonize capitalism if he thinks it will be advantageous to him politically). There is a rift in the Democratic Party on this right now, you know.
Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 06-13-2012 at 11:27 PM..
I agree that he's intelligent. I simply think Romney is more intelligent. I agree that Obama wants to improve the country, but I think his ideas are exactly what the country does not need.
Everyone agreed on what needed to be done after 9/11. People disagree on how to deal with fiscal crises. Obama refuses to consider Republican proposals, which is ironic given that he constantly calls for compromise. To Obama compromise only means agreeing with what he and other Democrats want.
Obama is a 1%er himself you know....
And I don't agree that Obama exhibits these traits - at least not to the extent I want a president to exhibit them.
Obama has been worse than W IMO. But, we agree that W was not a good president.
I don't like them either.
My only major disagreement with this post is that they GOP has been bringing forward sensible ideas. Bull****. Every budget they have proposed has been grotesquely partisan. No tax hikes for billionaires. Cut only, but not military cuts, axes falling on social and environmental programs and federal employees. Pure GOP ideology. How would any democrat sign that? Ryan is a used car saleman, of the same flavor as John Edwards.
Simpson Bowles is the common ground, but neither side seems to be embracing it.
My only major disagreement with this post is that they GOP has been bringing forward sensible ideas. Bull****. Every budget they have proposed has been grotesquely partisan. No tax hikes for billionaires. Cut only, but not military cuts, axes falling on social and environmental programs and federal employees. Pure GOP ideology. How would any democrat sign that? Ryan is a used car saleman, of the same flavor as John Edwards.
Simpson Bowles is the common ground, but neither side seems to be embracing it.
At least Ryan has the guts to propose something that will actually balance the budget at some point. And the Obama campaign/Democrats have been spewing a bunch of BS about his plan, being very dishonest about it.
We need to cut federal employees. We need to cut social programs. Social programs should be handled at the state and local level anyway, IMO.
Defense cuts are a bad idea. They could actually lead to more wars. We need to do a much better job of staying out of wars, but we do not need to spend less on defense (not including war).
As far as taxes, raising taxes on anyone in the middle of an economic downturn is a bad idea, especially if spending will be cut at the same time.
Neither side will embrace Simpson Bowles because it doesn't fit into either side's agenda. It's sad...but it's reality.
Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 06-13-2012 at 11:42 PM..
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