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Old 10-26-2012, 08:21 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,174,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
No offense but your post is economic illiteracy. How can government spending be excluded from GDP when the definition of GDP is:

where:
C = consumption
I= gross investment
G = government spending
X = exports
M = imports

Government spending is a component of GDP.

Moreover, it makes no difference from a macro-economic standpoint if GM sells a car to you or it sells it to the Interior Department.
So if government increased spending by $10 TRILLION a year, and the gdp doubled, that wouldnt indicate an economic problem to you?

Figures
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:22 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,174,590 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Okay. I now see why Red States lag behind in education.
I'm actually from a blue state

I see why you guys fail so often..
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
32,119 posts, read 34,781,879 times
Reputation: 15093
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
I'm actually from a blue state

I see why you guys fail so often..
Um, if you call creating iPads and nano-technologies and attending Ivy League universities "failing," then Okay.
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,967,937 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
So if government increased spending by $10 TRILLION a year, and the gdp doubled, that wouldnt indicate an economic problem to you?

Figures
The issue isn't whether the government doubling GDP instantly would cause problems. The assertion was that government spending doesn't count.

Doubling GDP in one year would likely cause many problems, like demand for wages and materials doubling -- which would increase wage pressure and price pressure. Nevertheless, the notion that government spending 'does really count' is disproved by that very example. Government demand is demand and economically speaking, no different than private demand.
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:29 AM
 
23,838 posts, read 23,148,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
The impact is not material, but the point to underscore is the overall trend line. Unemployment has been trending down since 2010 and that is seen, on the whole, as a positive thing (definitely more positive than trending up). And contrary to popular belief on Internet Boards and Fox News, a sizeable number of Americans do not hold Obama accountable for the massive job losses incurred from Day One in office. They don't expect a patient who broke his back to be back on his feet competing in an Iron Man contest in two months. People who blame the economic woes of the country on Obama were not likely to vote for him anyway.

The other thing is that a number of people are fully employed and thus view news of better than average GDP growth as a good thing.
Models that use GDP growth to determine electoral outcome are not focused on trend lines. People may be concerned with trend lines, but the models are not. The model used by the OP is basically saying that because GDP is growing, the electoral outcome is different. In good times, I can see this potentially holding true. In down times, like now, I don't see GDP growth in and of itself changing anyone's opinion or vote.
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:30 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,174,590 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
The issue isn't whether the government doubling GDP instantly would cause problems. The assertion was that government spending doesn't count.

Doubling GDP in one year would likely cause many problems, like demand for wages and materials doubling -- which would increase wage pressure and price pressure. Nevertheless, the notion that government spending 'does really count' is disproved by that very example. Government demand is demand and economically speaking, no different than private demand.
They didnt say government spending doesnt count, they said its not a great indicator..

If government spent $10T a year, this would double the GDP, but according to you liberals, this would be news to celebrate..

But clearly thats not true because it would equate to money being needed to first be removed from the economy or the deflating of the dollar.

GDP in Zimbabwe I'm sure skyrocketed when their current when to crap, but I'm pretty sure their economy didnt boom when that took place.
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:40 AM
 
12,436 posts, read 11,960,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
no you didnt, in fact you admitted you didnt know by telling me to do your homework for you.

If YOU are going to cite something as accurate, be prepared to defend it..

FAIL
I can't defend it if you don't argue what is wrong with it. Try reading it and then we can discuss it.
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,967,937 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
They didnt say government spending doesnt count, they said its not a great indicator..

If government spent $10T a year, this would double the GDP, but according to you liberals, this would be news to celebrate..

But clearly thats not true because it would equate to money being needed to first be removed from the economy or the deflating of the dollar.

GDP in Zimbabwe I'm sure skyrocketed when their current when to crap, but I'm pretty sure their economy didnt boom when that took place.
You clearly illustrate the willingness of right-wingers to believe myths based not on reality but on their own projection. On the right, people are for smaller government as a matter of principle — smaller government for its own sake. And so they naturally imagine that their opponents must be their mirror image, wanting bigger government as a goal in itself.

But it’s not true. I don’t know any progressives who gloat over increases in the federal payroll or the government share of GDP. Progressives have things they want the government to do — like guaranteeing health care. Size per se doesn’t matter. But people on the right apparently can’t get that.

Actually, GDP in Zimbabwe declined:

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Old 10-26-2012, 08:59 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,174,590 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
You clearly illustrate the willingness of right-wingers to believe myths based not on reality but on their own projection. On the right, people are for smaller government as a matter of principle — smaller government for its own sake. And so they naturally imagine that their opponents must be their mirror image, wanting bigger government as a goal in itself.

But it’s not true. I don’t know any progressives who gloat over increases in the federal payroll or the government share of GDP. Progressives have things they want the government to do — like guaranteeing health care. Size per se doesn’t matter. But people on the right apparently can’t get that.

Actually, GDP in Zimbabwe declined:
FAIL..

Zimbabwe's GDP growth is 9.3%

World Development Indicators and Global Development Finance - Google Public Data Explorer

Kinda puts our GDP into perspective, doesnt it?

btw, Obama said if we passed the stimulus bill, we'd have 4% growth in GDP, and we need a 3% growth just to keep jobs in check.
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:01 AM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,174,590 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotair2 View Post
I can't defend it if you don't argue what is wrong with it. Try reading it and then we can discuss it.
How does a GDP rate which is lower than the amount needed to keep up with jobs, increase ones chances of re-election?

People dont vote based upon GDP, they vote upon INDIVIDUAL situations.
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