Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-21-2016, 01:21 PM
 
1,184 posts, read 721,333 times
Reputation: 884

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Yes, it does. It got millions of people who either couldn't get insurance because they had pre-existing conditions or got millions of people insurance who couldn't afford insurance. To deny this is to deny reality.
How much did the big insurance companies get from this? Its like a law requiring every citizen to buy an American made car...Ford, GM wins?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-21-2016, 01:22 PM
 
12,772 posts, read 7,985,902 times
Reputation: 4332
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Yes, it does. It got millions of people who either couldn't get insurance because they had pre-existing conditions or got millions of people insurance who couldn't afford insurance. To deny this is to deny reality.
Why Obamacare fails poor and middle class - CNN.com

Quote:
An estimated 71% of the new insurance arises through Medicaid, using 2014 calculations based on analysis by Haislmaier and Gonshorowski of data from the Centers for Medicaid and Medicare. The harsh reality awaiting these low-income Americans is undeniable: according to 2013 data from a 2014 Merritt Hawkins study, 55% of doctors already refuse new Medicaid patients.
Quote:
More doctors than ever already refuse Medicaid and Medicare due to inadequate payments for care, and that will only accelerate as government lowers reimbursements. Less appreciated is that inadequate payments to doctors by government insurance substantially increase private insurance premiums
Quote:
The law already forced termination of health insurance for millions of Americans estimated as 4.7 million by the Associated Press -- insurance they personally had chosen to buy.
Quote:
Despite the assertion that the law increases insurance choices, the Obamacare exchanges do quite the opposite for those dependent on them and their government's subsidies. McKinsey reported 68% of Obamacare insurance options only cover narrow or very narrow provider networks, double that of the previous year.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,633,198 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
If you are going to have a debate about factual matters, I expect you to have facts and not just spew what you think the facts might be.

The fact is that those making up to 400% of the poverty rate are subsidized by taxes on the more wealthy.
Right. You have the facts.

The top 1% are hurting. All they did was increase their share of of the nation's wealth from 40% to 50% under Obama and from 35% to 50% since Clinton.

Nothing like a to 1% apologist. Clinton promises more of the same. Did I leave out how the African-American population has been economically crushed and subjected to unprecedented incarcerations under the Democrats? Did I leave out deportations and the misery of Latinos under the Democrats' Slave Labor practices.

Four more years! (The Billionaires love it).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,633,198 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
Medicaid is not insurance for most new enrollees since the government claws it back from their estates. It's delayed payments right out of the pockets, dollars for dollars, by the middle class. Plus, the healthcare actually delivered is a joke. It's not healthcare. It's more money for the medical industry.

A total joke. The Benevolent Big Government forcing people to buy into the Benevolent Big Pharma medical industry.

If Clinton neo-liberals actually listened to Sanders and Trump they might understand why the middle class is being crushed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,962,372 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
What you are quoting is an opinion piece from Scott W. Atlas, who is paid to argue against Obamacare.

Arguing that Medicaid doesn't help the poor when the poor had nothing before Medicaid was created fails by inspection.

It doesn't go unnoticed that you are changing the subject. What we were discussing wasn't Medicaid, but subsidies that the middle-class receives from the ACA that help them afford private health insurance. How can anyone suggest that a law that subsidizes middle-class purchases of health insurance and paid from extra-taxes on the wealthy, was designed to help the wealthy? That flies in the face of logic.

Nobody can reasonably argue that providing Americans who didn't have access to health insurance is a bad thing. It isn't clear whether insurance companies benefit from the ACA -- as someone presumed its sinister intention. One of the ACA's provisions mandates that insurance companies must spend 85% of premiums on actual patient care -- not CEO compensation, advertising or corporate jets.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
19,792 posts, read 13,962,372 times
Reputation: 5661
Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
...
If Clinton neo-liberals actually listened to Sanders and Trump they might understand why the middle class is being crushed.
Sanders is proposing universal single-payer health care (Medicare for all), which is a really good idea -- but one that would have a difficult time being passed in a Republican controlled House and Senate.

Trump called for eliminating the individual mandate, under Obamacare, which means he doesn't understand healthcare. Giving Americans with pre-existing medical conditions access to health insurance requires that insurance companies issue policies without regard to an individual’s medical history, without a mandate, results in many healthy people not buying insurance until they get sick, leaving a relatively bad risk pool, leading to high premiums that drive out even more healthy people.

To avoid this downward spiral, you need to induce healthy Americans to buy in; hence, the individual mandate, with a penalty for those who don’t purchase insurance. Finally, since buying insurance could be a hardship for lower-income Americans, you need subsidies to make insurance affordable for all.

Yet Trump wants to turn the Medicaid for the poor into a block grant and give tax breaks to people who buy their own insurance. Block grants is an idea that comes from the far-right that wants to divert that Medicaid money to other purposes. Making health premiums deductible only helps those in higher income brackets.

Essentially, this is a terrible plan.

Quote:
Gail Wilensky, a health care economist who oversaw the Medicare program for George H. W. Bush, contends Trump’s latest plan still falls short of a credible replacement plan — an issue not unique among the GOP presidential contenders. She points out there’s no attempt to address the elimination of the main ways that Obamacare helps poor people get coverage: the expansion of Medicaid and financial assistance for individuals to purchase coverage through the law’s insurance marketplaces.

With 20 million Americans now getting coverage through Obamacare, according to White House figures, “you need to do something to help the people who are poor, low-income and lower-middle class to buy insurance or you’re not talking about a serious plan,” Wilensky said.

Trump’s health care philosophy reached peak incoherence during a debate last month when he was pressed to explain his replacement plan.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/0...re-plan-220575
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 01:53 PM
 
1,184 posts, read 721,333 times
Reputation: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
Medicaid is not insurance for most new enrollees since the government claws it back from their estates. It's delayed payments right out of the pockets, dollars for dollars, by the middle class. Plus, the healthcare actually delivered is a joke. It's not healthcare. It's more money for the medical industry.

A total joke. The Benevolent Big Government forcing people to buy into the Benevolent Big Pharma medical industry.

If Clinton neo-liberals actually listened to Sanders and Trump they might understand why the middle class is being crushed.
Exactly, all the hospitals, clinics, pharma bros get more cheddar now...lets see other welfare programs?... SNAP, Obamaphone, Child Nutrition, Housing Assistance, etc...any money set aside for refugees, or illegals...Sure makes the Walton family of Walmart richer...they get food to sell, and which ever network runs the free cell phones and sells them get their cut. Rich land lords get theirs...All the money goes back to the rich somehow. Steal from the middle class, give to poor, poor give it right back to the rich...wall street goes up, dividends up, bonuses up. Wall St. Politicians, and the poor win. Middle class lose I don't own stocks, or rental properties, am not a CEO, so I get zero back. Its sick and will get worse under any Establishment candidate. Clinton is awesome!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Arizona
13,778 posts, read 9,671,694 times
Reputation: 7485
Quote:
Originally Posted by doggiedog9 View Post
Exactly, all the hospitals, clinics, pharma bros get more cheddar now...lets see other welfare programs?... SNAP, Obamaphone, Child Nutrition, Housing Assistance, etc...any money set aside for refugees, or illegals...Sure makes the Walton family of Walmart richer...they get food to sell, and which ever network runs the free cell phones and sells them get their cut. Rich land lords get theirs...All the money goes back to the rich somehow. Steal from the middle class, give to poor, poor give it right back to the rich...wall street goes up, dividends up, bonuses up. Wall St. Politicians, and the poor win. Middle class lose I don't own stocks, or rental properties, am not a CEO, so I get zero back. Its sick and will get worse under any Establishment candidate. Clinton is awesome!
Clue. Obamaphone is really the Reagan phone updated to the GW Bush phone when it went cellular.
Yes, God forgive us. Child nutrition. the worst scourge ever foisted on society.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,633,198 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
Sanders is proposing universal single-payer health care (Medicare for all), which is a really good idea -- but one that would have a difficult time being passed in a Republican controlled House and Senate.
Politicos, both Democrat and Republican, are totally in the pocket of Big Pharma and the medical industry and they gave them what they wanted. Big Government forces everyone to buy into their business. That is why single player fails! Total corruption of our Big, Big Government.

All that Obamacare did was transfer more money from healthy Americans to the top 1%. Something has to happen to stop this destruction of the middle class. You act as Obama did something great. All he did was such more money out of working families and passed it on to Billionaires.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2016, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 4,633,198 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by doggiedog9 View Post
Exactly, all the hospitals, clinics, pharma bros get more cheddar now...lets see other welfare programs?... SNAP, Obamaphone, Child Nutrition, Housing Assistance, etc...any money set aside for refugees, or illegals...Sure makes the Walton family of Walmart richer...they get food to sell, and which ever network runs the free cell phones and sells them get their cut. Rich land lords get theirs...All the money goes back to the rich somehow. Steal from the middle class, give to poor, poor give it right back to the rich...wall street goes up, dividends up, bonuses up. Wall St. Politicians, and the poor win. Middle class lose I don't own stocks, or rental properties, am not a CEO, so I get zero back. Its sick and will get worse under any Establishment candidate. Clinton is awesome!
The net effect of Bigger, Bigger Government is $trillions more for the top 1%, $trillions less for the middle class and the Clintonian neo-liberals along with their neo-con buddies promise more. More money for Billionaires and more Wars. More and more and more.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Elections

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top