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First, it's not my right nor yours where someone attends church and how they do or don't react to something a pastor says. And if you can't understand that, then you definitely can't understand the irony of a person running for president whose job is to protect people's religion from government action. If you had your way, you'd either refuse to elect or you'd remove Obama from office simply because you disagree with some controversial things his former pastor said.
And about John ******** ... ******** praised Confederate generals in 2001. Is there any question in your mind about his patriotism?
How do you know what I would do!!!??? I have not said who I will vote for and I cannot, because I am still looking at the candidates. I thought that was what we were supposed to do prior to deciding who to vote for. Apparently in your mind I am not allowed to look at all the facts and issues in order to make an informed decision. November is still a long time away and I am still assessing the candidates. And for your information I voted for Obama in my state's primary but there is no guarantee that I will do the same in November. Some people actually want to evaluate the candidates and their positions and not blindly follow one party's line.
As far as the Civil War issue I was trying to politely point out to you that that was a totally different time and I would not presume to judge the patriotism of the Confederate Generals. My understanding is that General Lee and Jefferson Davis were very honorably men. I also understand that the Founding Fathers were slave owners -- Are we now going to bring them into the conversation and question their patriotism?
How do you know what I would do!!!??? I have not said who I will vote for and I cannot, because I am still looking at the candidates. I thought that was what we were supposed to do prior to deciding who to vote for. Apparently in your mind I am not allowed to look at all the facts and issues in order to make an informed decision. November is still a long time away and I am still assessing the candidates. And for your information I voted for Obama in my state's primary but there is no guarantee that I will do the same in November. Some people actually want to evaluate the candidates and their positions and not blindly follow one party's line.
As far as the Civil War issue I was trying to politely point out to you that that was a totally different time and I would not presume to judge the patriotism of the Confederate Generals. My understanding is that General Lee and Jefferson Davis were very honorably men. I also understand that the Founding Fathers were slave owners -- Are we now going to bring them into the conversation and question their patriotism?
Your first paragraph is duly noted and well taken.
But you're obviously dodging John ********'s words. John ******** was the U.S. Attorney General from 2000 to 2003. John ******** gave praise for traitors to America. He did so while in office in 2001. IsJohn********patriotic?
Your first paragraph is duly noted and well taken.
But you're obviously dodging John ********'s words. John ******** was the U.S. Attorney General from 2000 to 2003. John ******** gave praise for traitors to America. He did so while in office in 2001. IsJohn********patriotic?
What part of the Civil War was a different time do you not understand? We cannot judge the actions of people 150 years ago by today's standards. Well obviously you can, but I can't. So for the record General Lee and Jefferson Davis were not traitors and John ******** is a patriot. I'm sure this is going to open up a whole new round of scaithing emails, so let it rip!
But remember that I am an undecided so you might not want to be toooooo insulting!
Because there are a lot of people who go to church regularly even though they don't always agree with everything a priest or pastor says. You keep going because church is about something more. It's about putting ego aside and getting together to honor God.
Just like you don't drop out of college, even though you are bound to hear things in college that you disagree with. You don't quit your job just because your boss says something you disgree with. (Well, some people do, but they don't have successful careers.)
I can't tell you how many Sundays I've come home from church riled up by something our priest said. If you ever walked into a donut shop on a Sunday morning and listened in on the conversations, you'd know this happens all the time. Lots of people disagree with their pastor now and then.
I go to the same church year in, year out because I like the community and it's nearby. The only time I change my church is when I move to a new town. I choose a church because it feels like a spiritual place to me, a place where I can really pray. Once I've found such a place I hate to leave it. I would think a very long time about leaving just because a priest said something that offended me. Also I think there is a lot to say for loyalty and not quitting on something just because you don't agree with every member of the flock.
If I was Obama, here's what I would have said about the whole Rev. Wright affair:
Christians believe their spiritual leader is Jesus Christ. A priest can state his opinion, but you don't have to agree. The words you follow are the words in the Bible not opinions from the pulpit.
You make some very good points. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree, because I couldn't do it but obviously a lot of people can.
What part of the Civil War was a different time do you not understand? We cannot judge the actions of people 150 years ago by today's standards. Well obviously you can, but I can't. So for the record General Lee and Jefferson Davis were not traitors and John ******** is a patriot. I'm sure this is going to open up a whole new round of scaithing emails, so let it rip!
But remember that I am an undecided so you might not want to be toooooo insulting!
Nice try. ******** praised those people not only for who they were, but he did so by applying today's standards.
Nevertheless, you obligingly prove my point. And that is, patriotism isn't limited to a certain political ideology or outlook. You say John ******** is a patriot, regardless of his associations with neo-Confederates. Others say that Barack Obama is a patriot, regardless of who or what his former pastor says or does.
Nice try. ******** praised those people not only for who they were, but he did so by applying today's standards.
Nevertheless, you obligingly prove my point. And that is, patriotism isn't limited to a certain political ideology or outlook. You say John ******** is a patriot, regardless of his associations with neo-Confederates. Others say that Barack Obama is a patriot, regardless of who or what his former pastor says or does.
See how easy that was?
You are obviously much more of an expert on John ******** than I am -- I don't even know what a "neo-confederate" is. But since you are from Atlanta, you obviously know alot more about that than I. I am still unclear as to why I should be interested in John ********'s patriotism - Is he running for some office?
Just for my edification, why do some people say that Obama is a patriot? What has he done to exhibit this patriotism, other than running for political office?
You are obviously much more of an expert on John ******** than I am -- I don't even know what a "neo-confederate" is. But since you are from Atlanta, you obviously know alot more about that than I. I am still unclear as to why I should be interested in John ********'s patriotism - Is he running for some office?
Just for my edification, why do some people say that Obama is a patriot? What has he done to exhibit this patriotism, other than running for political office?
Nah, I'm no expert. Just observant.
The reason I brought up John ******** is because, as you suggested earlier, people can be unsure about a person's patriotism based on his or her associations. If John ******** or Bob Barr associated or with people who still wished for the good ole days of the confederacy, then isn't their patriotism should be called into question as much as Obama's has been.
Why do people call Obama a patriot? Why are you a patriot?
I still say since John ******** is not running for office who he associates with, what he says, or even how patriotic he is, are not things I am concerned about.
If you asked 10 of my friends if I was patriotic, they would probably say "Whaaaaaaaaaaat? Who Cares?" Now if you asked "Am I a good person?", I would hope that they would answer "Yes." And the fact of the matter is, I don't particularly care about Obama's patriotism. I just responded with what I think is the reason for the questions. I also think that, although this is not something backers of Obama want to hear, his association with Wright and his church will continue to be problematic for undecided Independents like me. I may be able to get beyond it but it will take some work
The reason I brought up John ******** is because, as you suggested earlier, people can be unsure about a person's patriotism based on his or her associations. If John ******** or Bob Barr associated or with people who still wished for the good ole days of the confederacy, then isn't their patriotism should be called into question as much as Obama's has been.
Why do people call Obama a patriot? Why are you a patriot?
For the record, I did not say (or at least mean to say) that people are unsure of Obama's patriotism based on his associates. They have concerns because he had a close association with and continued to regularly attend a church where decidedly anti-American views were expressed. You can take that for whatever it is worth.
Well this was a topic about Obama wearing a flag pin but since folks no longer wish to discuss this topic, then I guess we are all through here. Thanks for your participation.
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