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Old 09-06-2008, 02:35 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,574,961 times
Reputation: 24780

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsoboi View Post
up to date electorial map.....as you can see Palin has made no difference. National polls dont matter.

Electoral-vote.com: President, Senate, House Updated Daily

I find it interesting that in 2004 this time Bush was leading slightly in Ohio and he won Ohio barely. Its reversed now. Based on this map, Obama can pick up 5 states that Bush won in 2004.

That website was a good predictor in the 2004 and 2006 elections. Looks like it's still on target.
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Old 09-06-2008, 02:36 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,064 posts, read 18,021,934 times
Reputation: 3731
Quote:
Originally Posted by ian6479 View Post
If you read Obama's tax plan, it details that 85% of American households will see a reduction in taxes. Overall tax will increase by $560bn over ten years (remember that double that figure has already been spent in 5 years in Iraq). The $560bn will come from a higher corporate tax (especially by those who have offshore operations), but lower on small businesses. It will also come from a higher tax on those earning over $250k, and from a diversion of funding to the war (once it is ended responsibly), plus a cut in what Obama's administration would deem as inefficient federal programs.

You may not agree with higher corporate taxes, or higher taxes on the top 1% of earners, but at least that money will be invested in R&D, infrastructure, and alternative fuels (also creating jobs). Also, if the majority of Americans are paying less taxes, they well consume more, and therefore business opportunity and profit should still prosper. Now, I know that sounds very idealistic.. but compare those intentions with the past 8 years, and the promise of more from Mccain/Palin.
Sorry, Ian, but read all of Obama's plans for increasing the number of programs and bigger government and then tell me how you can actually lower taxes for "85 percent of the country" and then add all of that extra spending. America is already swimming in debt -- we're owned by the Chinese. We do NOT need to add more.

And please don't tell me Obama's pat answer "through savings from ending the Iraq War." Do remember that one of Obama's own aides told a British newspaper that the "ending the war" thing was just a campaign promise, not to be taken seriously. We already have an agreement reached to withdraw by the end of 2009 but it takes a lot of time, equipment and MONEY to bring home troops. We will not see a huge savings for a while. And don't forget that troops numbers will have to grow in Afghanistan and other places.
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Old 09-06-2008, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,574,961 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocexpo View Post
Take a look at AOL's electoral map, it shows McCain winning EVERY SINGLE ELECTORAL VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets stop all these threads about polls, etc. They are irrelevant and inaccurate at best.
Polls are not all created equal. Some are clearly inaccurate and irrelevant. This one has a good track record.
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Old 09-06-2008, 04:47 AM
 
1,126 posts, read 2,694,594 times
Reputation: 572
Looking at that map, do you realize that the poorest, most uneducated and backwards states are solidly Republican? That makes you think...
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Old 09-06-2008, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,325 posts, read 44,984,873 times
Reputation: 7118
That's where all the redneck, racists are - including those of the democrat party we saw in the primary - We're gonna need'em! The more the merrier.
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Old 09-06-2008, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Downtown Greensboro, NC
3,491 posts, read 8,586,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
That website was a good predictor in the 2004 and 2006 elections. Looks like it's still on target.
Thats one reason why I think Obama will win. These are accurate and credible polls and they were on the mark in 2004 and 2006. Another thing is that people are forgeting the surge of support behind Obama which eclipes the Palin mania. I think what will put Obama over the top are the MILLIONS of new registered voters that will support Obama. Turn out in the primaries already set new records. Just wait til election day. In North Carolina we have early voting so expect the lines on early voting days to look like election day. I know thats the way it looked when I voted early for the primaries. But what I find interesting in some of the republican states thats leaning towards McCain, Obama has really closed the gap in many of these states. In 2004 Bush had 30 point leads in many of them. Now Obama has closed the gap to like 10. I think this is going to be an interesting election and I dont believe its going to be close as people think. Turn out is key and there is such enthusiasm behind Barack Obama. Through this whole election cycle the politital pundits have been wrong. I also think that Palin not only energized republicans but she energized support behind Obama. Also people shouldnt underestimate the black vote.
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Old 09-06-2008, 08:48 AM
 
Location: SE Arizona - FINALLY! :D
20,460 posts, read 26,353,407 times
Reputation: 7627
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
Sorry, Ian, but read all of Obama's plans for increasing the number of programs and bigger government and then tell me how you can actually lower taxes for "85 percent of the country" and then add all of that extra spending. America is already swimming in debt -- we're owned by the Chinese. We do NOT need to add more.
Indeed, all the more reason to dump the "borrow and spend" Republicans. Need I remind you which party's administrations have been the ones to ring up the vast majority of the national debt? It sure as heck WASN'T the Democratic Presidents. The GOP preaches fiscal responsibility but they FAR outspend the Democrats - it's not even close. EVERY single Republican President since Nixon has left us deeper and deeper in debt - while Carter left us even and Clinton left us FAR ahead.

Just to refresh your memory, here's the raw numbers of how they left the country:

Nixon/Ford: -$49 Billion change
Carter: Negligible change
Reagan: -$81 Billion change
Bush 1: -$135 Billion change
Clinton: +$526 Billion change
Bush 2: Uncertain because of phony bookkeeping by the administration (ie not including the cost of Iraq/Afghanistan in the budget). In other words, it SO BAD they want to hide it from us, but most estimates place it at over -$400 Billion NOT INCLUDING the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Keep in mind too that he started with Clintons's $236 Billion SURPLUS.

The fact of the matter is that despite their propagandistic claims to the contrary (which admittedly still seem to fool the idiot masses of the Republican party) it's the Republicans (not the Democrats) that are the BIG SPENDERS who have put our financial fate in the hands of the Chinese and others - and the facts CLEARLY show that.

ANYONE preaching that the Republicans somehow are fiscally superior to the Democrats is either lying or ignorant. When it comes to Presidents, it's the Republicans who know how to BORROW BORROW BORROW and SPEND SPEND SPEND, and the Democrats who know how to balance the budget.

Despite all their talk, the Republicans have NO credibility on this issue
None
Nada
Zip

And that's a fact.

BIG BLACK BOOTS - Information on the US Economy

Ken
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Old 09-06-2008, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Chicagoland
41,325 posts, read 44,984,873 times
Reputation: 7118
Quote:
Also people shouldnt underestimate the black vote.
The black voters are not enough to put him in the WH. Obama will lose BIG in the south. He's already abandoned Georgia, even though it has a high population of blacks.

70% of the electorate is white.
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Old 09-06-2008, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Downtown Greensboro, NC
3,491 posts, read 8,586,607 times
Reputation: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanrene View Post
The black voters are not enough to put him in the WH. Obama will lose BIG in the south. He's already abandoned Georgia, even though it has a high population of blacks.

70% of the electorate is white.
Black people dont only live in the south you know. In close contest in other regions of the country Black people could put him over in some states. This year will probabally be the biggest African-American turnout since blacks were allowed to vote. Virginia is tied right now and the black vote could be what tips it in Obama's favor, especially in areas near Washington, DC and Maryland which many are saying is the reason Virginia is tied. So dont belittle the black vote.
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Old 09-06-2008, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Home is where the heart is
15,402 posts, read 28,967,319 times
Reputation: 19090
Interesting article in yesterday's WSJ about college students.

College enrollment is at a record high. Which means a historic number of east coast and California students were not admitted to schools near their homes and instead enrolled in southern and midwestern schools.

Those students may play an important role in turning red states purple.
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