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Old 01-21-2009, 09:31 AM
 
31,387 posts, read 37,080,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muleskinner View Post
back in the day when it DID work well.
When might that have been?
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:33 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,886,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
When might that have been?
When it was weak and had little power...
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:34 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,910,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Exactly what could be done to stop it?

Nothing once it was passed,in fact it looks like bailouts and nationalisation of business is the future for our nation...
That money didn't go out the day after the vote passed. There wasn't even a thought-out plan for how to distribute that money. Is there even a thought-out plan today? Once it was passed, people could have demanded more oversight, people could have demanded it be amended, could have reduced the amount. Law is not fait accompli, it's a process, especially when it comes to money. Only thousands of people wrote that representative, how many people are in his district? How many people took the easy way out, signing a form letter, or adding their names to an e-mail? People have got to care more than that.
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:36 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,183,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
LOL...okay.

Hmmm,the VAST majority of the people were against the bailout...yet it happened and ANOTHER even bigger one is coming.

Seems what the people want matters little.
Obama said at the congressional luncheon yesterday, "Reflect what we know are in the hearts of the American people." He said in the inaug. speech, "[T]hose of us who manage the public's dollars will be held to account, to spend wisely, reform bad habits, and do our business in the light of day, because only then can we restore the vital trust between a people and their government."

So - at least he's said this. I think it's hugely important, though, that he or the WH spokesperson or whoever always explain decisions, very clearly and openly. They're supposed to, for Pete's sake. The bailouts - had to be done, for example. (This second $350B Obama is insisting its allocations be transparent.) Well - listen to our questions and explain to us the choices and the decisions honestly and in a way we can't help but understand.

The Bush crew were as transparent as a brick wall and as welcoming and open as Area 51, and that was so unnecessarily damaging, to them and to us generally. And through time we all became accustomed to this, it was excused by Admin apologists, etc. But it's WRONG and I hope it has ended for good.
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:37 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,886,336 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
That money didn't go out the day after the vote passed. There wasn't even a thought-out plan for how to distribute that money. Is there even a thought-out plan today? Once it was passed, people could have demanded more oversight, people could have demanded it be amended, could have reduced the amount. Law is not fait accompli, it's a process, especially when it comes to money. Only thousands of people wrote that representative, how many people are in his district? How many people took the easy way out, signing a form letter, or adding their names to an e-mail? People have got to care more than that.
Demand???

People cannot demand anything,as the people have little in the way of power.

You can demand anything you want but unless there are possible consequences it matters little.
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:39 AM
 
Location: North Cackelacky....in the hills.
19,567 posts, read 21,886,336 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Obama said at the congressional luncheon yesterday, "Reflect what we know are in the hearts of the American people." He said in the inaug. speech, "[T]hose of us who manage the public's dollars will be held to account, to spend wisely, reform bad habits, and do our business in the light of day, because only then can we restore the vital trust between a people and their government."

So - at least he's said this. I think it's hugely important, though, that he or the WH spokesperson or whoever always explain decisions, very clearly and openly. They're supposed to, for Pete's sake. The bailouts - had to be done, for example. (This second $350B Obama is insisting its allocations be transparent.) Well - listen to our questions and explain to us the choices and the decisions honestly and in a way we can't help but understand.

The Bush crew were as transparent as a brick wall and as welcoming and open as Area 51, and that was so unnecessarily damaging, to them and to us generally. And I think through time we all became accustomed to this. But it's WRONG and I hope it has ended for good.
Obama supported the first bailout...if he felt that strongly about transparency perhaps he should have spoken up?
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:51 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,910,690 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Demand???

People cannot demand anything,as the people have little in the way of power.

You can demand anything you want but unless there are possible consequences it matters little.

That's absolutely right. I can demand anything, but if I want to be heard, I've got to make that happen. I've got to care enough about it, to try to persuade others to speak out too. I've got to care enough about an issue to write letters to the newspapers and letters to my elected representatives and letters to representatives that don't represent me but have influence on an issue. I've got to care enough to write and call and e-mail and talk not just once, but over and over and over again. I've got to care enough that even when it looks as if I've lost, I find ways to get back in the game.

And people know this. PETA people, and people opposed to abortion, Greenpeace, and other environmentalists. The people who got prohibition reversed. The women who marched for the right to vote. Government is a process, and whether we like it or not, we are all involved in that process. Silence is just another way of agreeing with what the government does. Using our voice is what the Founding Fathers wanted for us, they opened the doors, the windows, the halls of government wide. We've even expanded on that. But it's up to us to climb the steps, to scramble over the fences, to even push people out of the way to gain entry and to keep our presence in those places of power. And if we aren't willing to break a sweat, to get dinged up on that rush to be heard, then what do we deserve? To say we can't do anything, to assume the role of victim, to take the passive road, and then to complain because we don't have a voice is just to be lazy. We have a voice, we just don't raise it enough.
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,078 posts, read 15,091,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
When might that have been?
When we kicked the British asses out of here I guess.You busted me.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:32 AM
 
2,265 posts, read 3,735,192 times
Reputation: 382
Quote:
Originally Posted by idahogie View Post
His quote has also been compared to Reagan's disfunctional vision:

"Government isn't the answer; government is the problem."

(or some such tripe like that)
Such a true statement.
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Old 01-21-2009, 10:43 AM
 
35,016 posts, read 39,183,867 times
Reputation: 6195
Quote:
Originally Posted by oz in SC View Post
Obama supported the first bailout...if he felt that strongly about transparency perhaps he should have spoken up?
He did - he and McCain - both Senators then - both called for close oversight of its apportionment (which at that time was a big lump of $700B). Most congresspeople were nervous about handing the entire lot to Bernanke to distribute "alone," but that's what happened if you recall. The decision had to be made so quickly there was no time to stop the train and opine.
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