What do you prefer, Romance or Germanic Europe? (cost, rich, traits)
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German settlers are quite common, at least in Spanish history. There are entire regions that are descendants of Germans, Flemish and Swiss settlers (Catholics, of course). They came during the Hapsburg and during the large settlement project of Olavide in 1770.
Most found they had a foreign origin when they went to the Military Service, because they retained their German last names, but in some cases "hispanised". Catalonia also received many German Catholics after the plagues.
At that time, Religion was more important than ethnicity or language. During the Hapsburg empire, Spain received many Flemish and German craftsmen, bankers, peasants. At that time, Spain was almost inhabited because of plagues, army recruitment and the flow of people that went to America.
Gee, so much. Frankly, I don't want to spend so much time on this topic. So, sorry for my short reply:
Ethnically my kids would not be Portuguese, either, in my view, at best they would be mixed if my wife were a real Portuguese. Since there used to be Germanic kingdoms in Portugal as well, there are very Nordic-looking Portuguese especially in Northern Portugal that date back centuries, but still, they are not real Portuguese to me.
Language to me is not that important, it is just one layer of many. And it doesn't say much about ethnicity etc. France is a transition zone between the north and the south in terms of ethnicity. Ethnically many French are the same as Germans, which makes sense as most people living in Romance countries have never been the offspring of Romans at all, but only adopted the language and to a certain extent general culture of the ruling Roman intruders. Had the Germans not pushed back the Romans, Germany might be a Romance country as well today, despite being inhabited by exactly the same people as today.
I disagree with your view on Germany. Most Germans did not even want reunification, nor the role you say they wanted. It was merely a political thing, mainly pushed by forces outside the two Germanies. And most Germans I know still don't like their new role as the center of Europe and the unjustified distrust that comes with it.
Sarcozy is a joke. He is himself someone with an immigrant background, married to a foreigner, but speaks out against immigrants to France in the course of his election campaign.
I won't even defend Merkel, she might be good at physics, but as a politician she is a black hole. She should get married to Sarcozy
"Ethnically my kids would not be Portuguese, either, in my view, at best they would be mixed if my wife were a real Portuguese. Since there used to be Germanic kingdoms in Portugal as well, there are very Nordic-looking Portuguese especially in Northern Portugal that date back centuries, but still, they are not real Portuguese to me."
Stupid afirmation. Portuguese have different influences. If we did not consider "real Portuguese" the portuguese with foreign ancestors of 500 years ago you should say the same about you german people ¿A dark german is not a real german? Explain what is an "real portugues" to you. Iberia has had many influences, which results in many phenotypes, two of my grandparents were blond with blue eyes, the other two dark with brown eyes, i have the curly hair and green eyes, my sister is a brunette with brown eyes, my nieces redheads, blondes and brunettes etc etc etc try to find a real "iberian" between us.
I doubt the Germanic kingdoms had any impact on the population genetic of Iberia. Or what do you think? any blonde in Portugal is a descendant of the Visigoths? You have little idea about population genetics. Surely there has always been blondes in Portugal and Galicia
"Ethnically my kids would not be Portuguese, either, in my view, at best they would be mixed if my wife were a real Portuguese. Since there used to be Germanic kingdoms in Portugal as well, there are very Nordic-looking Portuguese especially in Northern Portugal that date back centuries, but still, they are not real Portuguese to me."
Stupid afirmation. Portuguese have different influences. If we did not consider "real Portuguese" the portuguese with foreign ancestors of 500 years ago you should say the same about you german people ¿A dark german is not a real german? Explain what is an "real portugues" to you. Iberia has had many influences, which results in many phenotypes, two of my grandparents were blond with blue eyes, the other two dark with brown eyes, i have the curly hair and green eyes, my sister is a brunette with brown eyes, my nieces redheads, blondes and brunettes etc etc etc try to find a real "iberian" between us.
I doubt the Germanic kingdoms had any impact on the population genetic of Iberia. Or what do you think? any blonde in Portugal is a descendant of the Visigoths? You have little idea about population genetics. Surely there has always been blondes in Portugal and Galicia
Germany is different from Portugal as it is much larger and has always been heterogeneous because of its sheer extension, long before it became a country in the first place. Germans from Northern Germany have always looked much more Nordic than people from Southern Germany (which is logical because the Nordic type expanded from the North to the South).
Portugal, however, is small and there were hardly any if any Nordic-looking people in Portugal (and Spain) before the Germanic tribes arrived many centuries ago. The Germanic influence is indeed genetic as well.
But it also applies to more abstract aspects such as agriculture (for instance the way land is traditionally inherited is different in northern Portugal because of Germanic law).
Visigoths and Suevians were 200.000 to 250.000 and they arrived to Hispania, that had from 6.000.000 to 8.000.000 inhabitants. Their influence was minimal. Most blonde people you find in Galicia and Northern Portugal are descendants of the large Brition settlement of the fourth century, Britons fleeing from Anglo Saxons.
Visigoths were culturally Germanic, but most were Sarmatians. They did not have a distinctive look from your regular Hispano-Roman. Alans, another wave of invaders, were mongoloids.
Germany is different from Portugal as it is much larger and has always been heterogeneous because of its sheer extension, long before it became a country in the first place. Germans from Northern Germany have always looked much more Nordic than people from Southern Germany (which is logical because the Nordic type expanded from the North to the South).
Portugal, however, is small and there were hardly any if any Nordic-looking people in Portugal (and Spain) before the Germanic tribes arrived many centuries ago. The Germanic influence is indeed genetic as well.
But it also applies to more abstract aspects such as agriculture (for instance the way land is traditionally inherited is different in northern Portugal because of Germanic law).
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Wrong, Hispania received many Germanic invasions before Visigoths. The first Germanic invasion recorded were the Cymbrians. They were the excuse of Rome's involvement in Spain.
The "minifundio" does not have any relation with Germanic law.
Germany also received Spanish invasions under the form of Tercios.
Visigoths were Christians (Arrians) and very romanized, they lost their language in two generations and their culture, religion and law in five generaton (the conversion of Recared).
Their true cultural influence was political, they created the concept of Hispania as a monarchy with a centralized capital. They only left ten to twelve of their language.
Wrong, Hispania received many Germanic invasions before Visigoths. The first Germanic invasion recorded were the Cymbrians. They were the excuse of Rome's involvement in Spain.
The "minifundio" does not have any relation with Germanic law.
Germany also received Spanish invasions under the form of Tercios.
What is wrong? I did not even mention Visigoths. It does not matter who the first Germanic intruders were, the original people of the peninsula were not of the Nordic type. Blond people arrived with the Germanic (and maybe Celtic) tribes.
I have lived in various parts of Portugal. It is interesting, in the North there are many blonde people, here in the rural south hardly any. People look a lot different on average. And I don't think it is a coincidence that the parts of the peninsula where most native, yet Nordic-looking people live today are within the former Suebi kingdom.
And I disagree, the Germanic tribes have left various traces touching many aspects of life.
What is wrong? I did not even mention Visigoths. It does not matter who the first Germanic intruders were, the original people of the peninsula were not of the Nordic type. Blond people arrived with the Germanic (and maybe Celtic) tribes.
I have lived in various parts of Portugal. It is interesting, in the North there are many blonde people, here in the rural south hardly any. People look a lot different on average. And I don't think it is a coincidence that the parts of the peninsula where most native, yet Nordic-looking people live today are within the former Suebi kingdom.
And I disagree, the Germanic tribes have left various traces touching many aspects of life.
Blond=nordic???
Really?
Celtic tribes were at portugal or Spain at the same time than iberians in the south/east.They didn´t arrive, see older post about "celts"; it´s not clear where was the procedence or ethnic group of them. I guess, again, "blondes" are not just a nordic thing.
Suevians were massacred by the Visigoths. The original people of Germany are not blond and blue eyed either.
Blond hair and blue eyes came with Indoeuropean invaders, a mutation that originated 10.000 years ago in the Caucasus.
Nordic people (not Germans) are not naturally blonde or blue eyed. They are now blonde and blue eyed because of selective breathing. In primitive hunter-gatherer societies in Scandinavia and way beyond the Rhine, blue eyes and blonde hair were considered "magical", so women with those traits were selected for breeding for magical reason.
In the parts of Europe that were not hunter-gatherers, such traits were not considered magical so there was no selective breeding. Here, in the sunny side of Europe, the only thing that counted was land and money, so a poor blonde was not considered attractive.
Visigoths left the concept of Spain or Hispania as a single state and beatiful jewelry, and they also left the preromanesque style (about five little chapels).
I believe that the vision of distinct ethnic groups is slowly disappearing, globalization, the integration of different cultures, is changing significantly the image of the future European citizen, I do not know if this will be in favor or not, we must do not forget that humanity has a spiritual and earthly journey that must be watched by wide open eyes and mind
Blond=nordic???
Really?
Celtic tribes were at portugal or Spain at the same time than iberians in the south/east.They didn´t arrive, see older post about "celts"; it´s not clear where was the procedence or ethnic group of them. I guess, again, "blondes" are not just a nordic thing.
Celts are Indo-Europeans, and as such their ancestors were originally not from Europe, let alone from the Iberian peninsula.
And maps on blond hair and light eyes do suggest that these features originated in the NE of Europe and spread from there in various directions and at various speeds and ways. As a rule of thumb, the further away, the smaller the percentage of people with those features. There are exceptions though as a result of specific historic migrations and events.
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