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I've heard that Italian patriotism is very contradictory in nature: on one hand, there are visible displays of patriotism (e.g. the World Cup), and Italians are known as proud people, being proud of their history, culture, art.etc and rather insular, yet at the same time they are also a very divided people, not being united until 1870. Plus a lot of people think of Italians abroad, like Italian Americans or Australians, who play up their 'Italian-ness' so think people in Italy must be very patriotic.
I just read Luigi Barzini's 'The Italian' and he writes about this apparent dichotomy. On one hand they do appear very proud of Italy etc, yet it seems their main loyalty is to family, secret organisations.etc. They're also very provincial, with Romans seeing themselves as Romans first, Tuscans as Tuscans, Florentines as Florentines, Milanese, Neapolitans, Venetians, Sicilians.etc. There is also an innate distrust/cynicism of government and authority. Aside from this last part I've heard China described in similar terms.
Can anyone offer insight into the nature of nationalism and patriotism in Italy? Regarding nationalism, Mussolini fancied himself a latter day Caesar, and in some ways wanted to bring back the glory of Rome.
I can tell you this....every italian is very conscious about Italy being the best and/or the most beautiful country in the world (at least is what almost every people here believe)..think about the culture, the wonderfull cities, the landscapes, the food the great people who revolutioned arts & science ecc ecc BUT we've got so many problems and so many things just don't work here that even if we're proud to be italians at the same time we feel ashamed of our country.
So that's why you can see some "patriotism" during sport evenst but as I said before at the same time lots of complains about Italy.
That goes so far that for example when we're abroad we tend not to say our nationality and as soon as we see our fellow countrymans we try not to avoid them (this can sounds akward but I assure you it happens)
In summary, italians love Italy but "hate" italians.
And about us being "provincial" this is the situation : there is a political party called "lega nord" who has lots of support in the northern area which is joined by people who think northern italy should goes apart from the rest of the country. That means some people here in the north feel themself as "padani" (Padania being a macro region which should include 9/10 northern region) instead of italians. Thank God they are a small %.
So, strong feeling about coming from a specific regions instead being called italians can be found in some people from the north and I guess in Romans (they are so proud of their city!!!!)
Unfortunately they lack patriotism in the most important thing: pay the tax(people), corruption(politicians and generally all people involved in affairs),mismanagement(leading class) and sense of State.
My partner is Italian, he loves Italy so much but I think he lost hope in Italy, with the corruption and all. He is from Salerno and he told me when he lived in Northern Italy for a teaching job (Mestre and Treviso) people would make fun of him because he is from the South and he told me that on two different occasions people from the North pretended not to understand his Italian, even when he spoke in perfect Italian! They were making fun of him. Stories like this disgust me and make me so angry I just want to cry! Of course racists Italians are few, not all Italians are like this. The Italians I met are warm people and love Italy but are disappointed on the way the country is being run. I hope in his lifetime things will change.
less than French or british people , Italy hasn't been united all that long , patriotism appears regional in Italy , Sicilians almost view themselves as a people separate for example
I mean this gently: you can hope, but don't hold your breath.
Two generations of Italians have, by and large, been lost - but not for lack of trying - and the outlook for the bulk of today's young children is not better.
My children have Italian passports, but I doubt they will ever need them or want them to become residents of Italy, and, just like a century ago, the Italian ruling elite couldn't care less, believe me. Even Fiat doesn't want to be Italian anymore.
My partner is Italian, he loves Italy so much but I think he lost hope in Italy, with the corruption and all. He is from Salerno and he told me when he lived in Northern Italy for a teaching job (Mestre and Treviso) people would make fun of him because he is from the South and he told me that on two different occasions people from the North pretended not to understand his Italian, even when he spoke in perfect Italian! They were making fun of him. Stories like this disgust me and make me so angry I just want to cry! Of course racists Italians are few, not all Italians are like this. The Italians I met are warm people and love Italy but are disappointed on the way the country is being run. I hope in his lifetime things will change.
Yes I read about the whole rivalry between North and South in Barzini's book, but I would be surprised to hear it's still so bad. It seems a lot of those in the north are rather snobbish and still look down on the south, and there's still an economic divide. Milan definitely looks quite different from Naples, regional styles notwithstanding. Yes it seems Italy hasn't had an efficient/just government since Roman times, no wonder a lot of the people don't trust them!
.... there's still an economic divide. Milan definitely looks quite different from Naples, regional styles notwithstanding. Yes it seems Italy hasn't had an efficient/ ... government since Roman times, no wonder a lot of the people don't trust them!
Justice? What is justice?
In terms of efficient, basically you are looking in the right direction(s). Basically Italy south of Rome is a Mediterranean phenomenon, but that superhighway has been busted for around one thousand four hundred years and there is no relief in sight. Meanwhile, basically Italy north of Rome is a European phenomenon which has been intact, more or less, for about one thousand two hundred years, and it still has a future to look forward to, for better and for worse.
But re-circle a square that some people have been trying to re-circle for many centuries and you are a genius, military or otherwise.
In terms of efficient, basically you are looking in the right direction(s). Basically Italy south of Rome is a Mediterranean phenomenon, but that superhighway has been busted for around one thousand four hundred years and there is no relief in sight. Meanwhile, basically Italy north of Rome is a European phenomenon which has been intact, more or less, for about one thousand two hundred years, and it still has a future to look forward to, for better and for worse.
But re-circle a square that some people have been trying to re-circle for many centuries and you are a genius, military or otherwise.
Good Luck!
I'm just going by what I've read and heard. It's of course hard for a tourist to get a picture of how things work, even if I lived there and learned Italian and got to know lots of Italians I doubt I'd know like an Italian. Italians have a very Italian way of doing things.
Northern italians have almost no patriotism, they keep it for the future Padania
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