Where does Southern Europe in the Balkans begins? (country, people, climate)

[Davy-040]

If the gateway cities to Southern Europe in France are Bordeaux+Valence and in Italy Parma+Ferrera,
What are the gateway cities to Southern Europe in the Balkans?

Belgrade, Serbia is probably the most obvious answer but i think the "Southern border" in the Balkans is located more Southern than that.

[kent2780]

I wouldn’t call Bordeaux Southern Europe. Somehow I associate the term of Southern Europe with being close to the Mediterranean Sea as of geographic location and cuisine. I am thinking of hot dry summers and use of olive oil.

I cannot think of Serbia or Bulgaria as Southern Europe. From the Balkans Southern Europe is the Coast of Croatia (not Zagreb), Montenegro, Albania, Greece and the European part of Turkey.

[NewbiePoster]

I'd say it begins around Macedonia. But you're talking about "gateway cities"? IDK. Maybe Dubrovnik. Split. Here's a question: is "Southern Europe" purely geographical, or is it cultural?

Originally Posted by kent2780;

I cannot think of Serbia or Bulgaria as Southern Europe. From the Balkans Southern Europe is the Coast of Croatia (not Zagreb), Montenegro, Albania, Greece and the European part of Turkey.

Bulgaria is more southerly than Croatia. If you include Croatia, you have to include Bosnia and Bulgaria.

[tarzan_taborda]

Everything south of:
the border between bulgaria and romania
A line beggining in the bulgarian/romania border through belgrade, ending in the bosnia/croatia border
border between bosnia and croatia.
Everything south of bosnia/croatia border, including dalmatia coast of croatia.

[Misko]

Whole Balkan peninsula is considered to be part of Southeastern Europe. During the "Cold War" when Europe was divided into blocks Greece was considered to be Western or Southern European country while Bulgaria and Romania were part of Eastern Europe, Yugoslavia and Albania were independent of Soviet and American blocks so they were often classified as both Southern and Eastern European countries

Southerly countries of Europe (dark blue)


Regions of Europe based on CIA world factbook


(Red) Southwestern Europe
(Green) Southern Europe
(Ocher) Southeastern Europe

Southern Europe as defined by the United Nations (marked green)

[french user]

Originally Posted by kent2780

I wouldn’t call Bordeaux Southern Europe. Somehow I associate the term of Southern Europe with being close to the Mediterranean Sea as of geographic location and cuisine. I am thinking of hot dry summers and use of olive oil.

I cannot think of Serbia or Bulgaria as Southern Europe. From the Balkans Southern Europe is the Coast of Croatia (not Zagreb), Montenegro, Albania, Greece and the European part of Turkey.

It is because you confuse, like many people two different concepts:
-the geographic concept of "mediterranean"
-the geographical or cultural concept of "southern Europe"

Bordeaux, like a big third of Spain and Italy, and like 80% of the Balkans do not border the mediterranean sea and are not located and have climate not classified as mediterranean but are obviouly in the southern part of Europe... All those places are located at mediterranean latitudes, so are southern European. Bordeaux is in line with Genova. Even Lyon is lined with Milan and Venice (with similar climates), these cities are all located at mediterranean latitudes, clearly in the southern third of Europe. If not southern Europe then what it is?

Southern Europe is climatically much more diverse than northen Europe, and is not more limited to mediterranean climate zones than northern Europe would be refer only to sub-polar zones.

[Summerwhale]

Italy.

[NewbiePoster]

Originally Posted by Misko

Whole Balkan peninsula is considered to be part of Southeastern Europe. During the "Cold War" when Europe was divided into blocks Greece was considered to be Western or Southern European country while Bulgaria and Romania were part of Eastern Europe, Yugoslavia and Albania were independent of Soviet and American blocks so they were often classified as both Southern and Eastern European countries

Southerly countries of Europe (dark blue)


Regions of Europe based on CIA world factbook


(Red) Southwestern Europe
(Green) Southern Europe
(Ocher) Southeastern Europe

Southern Europe as defined by the United Nations (marked green)

On the CIA map, what do they call the lavender section that includes Turkey and the Caucasus? The CIA doesn't appear to consider the Caucasus as Europe.

And on the UN map, the Caucasus is also colored differently from any other grouping. Does the UN consider that "Europe", or not? And why is part of the Caucasus a purple color? Why isn't Armenia included with the pink countries of the Caucasus? There are some interesting anomalies on this map.

I'm reminded of so many debates on this forum, where the majority considered the Caucasus as part of Europe, so I'm curious.

[Jesse44]

Bosnia seems like a good starting point for Southern Europe within the Balkans. I don't know about Belgrade or any of Serbia, but I've also never been there.

[overdrive1979]

Originally Posted by kent2780

I wouldn’t call Bordeaux Southern Europe. Somehow I associate the term of Southern Europe with being close to the Mediterranean Sea as of geographic location and cuisine. I am thinking of hot dry summers and use of olive oil.

Why not? Summers in Bordeaux are relativelty dry.
Being back on topic, I would call southern Europe anywhere south of Podgorica, Pristina and Sofia.