Sweden vs. Norway (crime rate, expensive, property, taxes)
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I guess you prefer a desert city filled with hookers and gamblers?
If you're referring to Las Vegas I haven't moved there and I don't know if I ever will. But wherever I move, it can't have as high a prevalence of west Europeans as Sweden or Norway.
That is because they are a nazi party.
You should know that if you follow swedish politics as much as you claim to do.
No they aren't. Jesus christ my countrymen are so brainwashed and political correct its depressing. You are all such pussified self hating wimps. This country is going under from our extremely reckless immigration and you people just stand there yelling "more! More!!".
I'd love to visit but like Julia said I could never live in either one. If I had to pick one though it would be Norway by far, even though both countries are beautiful (Norway might be a bit more spectacular) Sweden is too much of a basket case of radical feminism, extreme political correctness, irritating "we-are-the-world" and "we-need-to-save-all-those-poor-brown-and-black-countries-because-we're-so-much-more-advanced-than-them" syndromes and Islam loving apologists.
Yes like my name sugests I'm swedish, and I consider myself a swedish patriot, but the radical feminism and extreme political correctness is a cancer in this country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariete
Denmark takes like what, 3000 refugees a year? Finland around 2000. Sweden plans to take 100,000-200,000 a year. I think it's insane. The problems with integration are often exaggerated, but the refugees in Sweden have a disproportionately high level of unemployment, as in so many countries. Also here.
And there's a difference in between "building walls" and letting in half of the world. But it's your country and you must do what you like.
I've lived in a very seggregated part of sweden for more than a decade, and I can tell you, the problems in such an area is massive, and our immigrationpolicy continues to expand the problems found here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSwede
If you followed swedish politics at all you wouldn´t have to ask this question.
Just this week one of Swedens leading nazi politicians was upset at SD for stealing their politics.
SD has really begun to show their true brown colours this fall.
The truth about SD is that they as a party are not mature for serious governing. They have too many members that express extreme things in racist directions, HOWEVER the party as such does not stand for racist ideologies and have been very hard on excluding members that conduct these expressions.
In spite of this problem and screwing around with some issues more than necessary, they do have a valid point; Sweden is taking in too much imigrants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natten
No they aren't. Jesus christ my countrymen are so brainwashed and political correct its depressing. You are all such pussified self hating wimps. This country is going under from our extremely reckless immigration and you people just stand there yelling "more! More!!".
This is exactly what I and so many others think.
Personally I don't give a crap whether my neighbor is black white, or is a marsian purple person with green spots and yellow stripes. I don't care if the gypsy beggars are organized or not, and I certainly don't give a crap about what history happened in the past. What matters is what happens now.
Facts:
* A certain ammount of new opportunities for employment can be developed per unit of time, the current rate(past 8 years) does not keep up with immigration inspite of having one of europes top 2 most successful governments in the area of economics.
- We already have a slightly higher unemployment-rate what is desired by most.
* A lot of jobs can can be carried out without major qualifications are moved to asia and other low-income areas.
- A lot of our non-european imigrants lack qualified education, and thus add to the potential non-qualified labor force.
* The swedish housingmarket does not produce enough homes for our current needs without immigration.
- Immigrants need housing and thus each immigrant increases the need for more homes.
* Immigrants who get their income by begging on the street and send money home are a negative part of our trade balance, as their income is not taxed and creates an unregulated flow of currency out of the country.
* Populations in highly concentrated immigrant areas(Rosengård, Husby, Rinkeby...) seldom do well in the Swedish school system.
- the inability to produce school-results for the children of many immigrants increases the socioeconomic rifts in society. (to clarify the reasons for the lack of performance is many but most prominantly insufficient linguistic skills due to speaking a different language than swedish at home and being surrounded by non-swedish peers, the individuals as such are NOT destined to be too dumb for school. I know as a former part-time teacher in one of these areas.)
These are just some of the purely non-racist arguments against the extreme over-migration and total failure of our assimilation system.
I don't even need to get into cultural problems to make my points(I have many more), but at the end of the day Sweden is either going to take off the politically correct blindfolds, or these problems will turn into a true crisis.
Location: Sweden
Climate diversity:Norway
Scenary/landscape: Norway
Urban: Sweden
Language: Norway
Demographic: Norway
Culture/food/holidays: Sweden
Entertainment/things to see/do: Sweden
History: Sweden
Education: Norway
Cost of living: Sweden
Career opportunity: Sweden
Where would you rather live? Sweden
Which country is more interesting? Sweden
Yes like my name sugests I'm swedish, and I consider myself a swedish patriot, but the radical feminism and extreme political correctness is a cancer in this country.
No way...
Quote:
* A certain ammount of new opportunities for employment can be developed per unit of time, the current rate(past 8 years) does not keep up with immigration inspite of having one of europes top 2 most successful governments in the area of economics.
- We already have a slightly higher unemployment-rate what is desired by most.
Your unemployment rate is fixed around 8 percent. That is close to what your unemployment levels looked like in 1990-1994. What your government and media are not talking about (which they do in any country in Europe) is that you have something called under-unemployment. Under-unemployment means people who have certain skills (like college education) but work a job which require no academic skill at all. It also refers to people who have a trade diploma (for example an electrician) who works in a coffee shop. Among the under-unemployed you also find people whom work part time but want to work full time. There is also a large number of hidden unemployment, people who have dropped out of the system and are therefore not counted as unemployed. There are different measurements but your real unemployment/under-unemployment/hidden unemployment rate is more likely close to 15 percent. Your median income increase in relation to inflation from 1993 and beyond is slowing considerable. Looking at the HDI-index and other social measurements you find that Sweden has an increasing group of people with very low incomes and in many cases paid directly by the government. This included Swedes who have been crowded out by the effects of your financial policy and globalization but in a large extent it is immigrants from third world countries who lack cultural, social and educational-capital to gain access to the Swedish labor-market. More so – your country does not create very little new employment-opportunities. Most of the 300,000 jobs (or whatever) which have been created the last years are jobs which are created automatically through an increase in population such as nurses, doctors, firemen, police and so on. Jobs in the private sector (which actually finance your country) show little overall growth. Even if your systems worked with full effect about 1/3 of your unemployed would still be unemployed. You government does increase the pool of labor faster than your welfare state and private corporation can swallow.
Quote:
* A lot of jobs can can be carried out without major qualifications are moved to asia and other low-income areas.
- A lot of our non-european imigrants lack qualified education, and thus add to the potential non-qualified labor force.
Your non-European immigrant (on average) not only lack education which in demand but your entire economy has a surplus of workers. The unemployment rate among ethnic Swedes is already high. Economically the consequences are not only reduced salaries (although not as stark as in United States) but high unemployment among immigrants which takes tax-money from the government (in-direct also corporations) who cannot employ the already existing unemployed. If you economy had people in demand (other than certain people with certain skills) immigration would be good thing from an economical perspective. Your immigration policy is actually the opposite from all conventional wisdom.
Quote:
* The swedish housingmarket does not produce enough homes for our current needs without immigration.
- Immigrants need housing and thus each immigrant increases the need for more homes.
Your household debt ratio has increased from 92.2 percent to 163 percent. The obvious reasons are that housing has become a speculative commodity. The increase of housing prices stem from that Central Bank keep the intrest rates low and Banks issue loans to bad creditors. Housing has also become more expensive because your government and corporation do not build housing in the current rate needed to house all the immigrants give permanent residency every year. The reason why your government and corporations does not build housing is because of regulations, taxes and that your government sees housing as way of saving and earning money. The median immigrant, working in low-paid job cannot afford buying a house or apartment. Currently, Sweden has a slight deflation but the historical inflation (which is massive since Sweden abolished the Gold Standard in 1931/1961) and combined with the rising prices of housing it means that people (immigrants or not) are not able to save money in the same pace as needed for buying a house. Your housing market prices are rising faster than people can save money to even be able to pay the first deposit. It also has to be mentioned that you don’t build very little Public housing. Although, this is correct decision the consequences when very little is built (pressing down prices) is that your country will end up having a growing homeless population. What I understand you have more than 5000 homeless in Stockholm. In the 1990 these were just a few hundred and most of them were druggies. Sweden has an increasing number of unemployed people with no drug-addiction sleeping. What is worse, you are crowded-out by thousands of Roma EU-immigrants who have come the last ten years to make a living on the streets of pretty much all your medium to large cities.
Quote:
* Immigrants who get their income by begging on the street and send money home are a negative part of our trade balance, as their income is not taxed and creates an unregulated flow of currency out of the country.
I don’t think the Roma begging hurt your economy in any significant way. They are not immigrants. They come to Sweden and the rest of Europe as tourists. They are there temporary and travel home during the winter season. As citizens of another EU-country they have actually little access to your welfare system. They are in Sweden as tourists who happen to be begging or commit petty thefts for a living. Not all of them course but they have really no other skills which they can use in Eastern Europe or in Western Europe. Those who send home money abroad would be the larger immigrant groups. Still, I don’t think the effect would be more than marginal on your economy other than that it creates social consequences which have to be solved with government intervention. Your balance of balance is for sure not affected by a gypsies sending money home. I can assure you that.
Quote:
* Populations in highly concentrated immigrant areas (Rosengård, Husby, Rinkeby...) seldom do well in the Swedish school system.
- the inability to produce school-results for the children of many immigrants increases the socioeconomic rifts in society.
(to clarify the reasons for the lack of performance is many but most prominantly insufficient linguistic skills due to speaking a different language than swedish at home and being surrounded by non-swedish peers, the individuals as such are NOT destined to be too dumb for school. I know as a former part-time teacher in one of these areas.)
Swedish children are high-performance students compared to most Western countries including Denmark. What is driving your rating down in PISA and other rankings are your migration community. School-performance is inherited. Still, the migrant community is not “all to blame” for your bad results. Your school system is actually deeply dysfunctional. Your children are not allowed to reach their potential.You focus on soft skills such as argumentation than actually skills which is demanded by the labor market such as mathematics and STEM-subjects. Your government is constantly reducing the quality of education system so you more children pass school. More so, your liberal/socialist governments believe that they can hide unemployment but increasing enrollment into higher education which means that more and more people leaves universities which no possibility to find a good job. This means an increase of poverty and devaluation of the middle class.
…………………..
You don’t have to be an economists to understand that the music is slowing down in Sweden and when it all come a halt (although not economically possible) your will end up with the biggest bag of failed excrement politics in the history. You media, corporations, academia, bureaucrat and government will have destroyed the Swedish welfare state. It is not all of surplus-immigration (although an increasing part of it) but because your policy since the 1970 have been negative for your economy. The only reason why your welfare state is alive and kicking is because the indigenous people of Sweden are highly productive. Your bag of excrement politics will in the end drown your people and they will not be able to pay for it anymore. If you look at your housing market it is just a matter of time until it pops. In the worst case scenario you will have another 1990-crisis and that on top on crisis of 2007. You will not be able to have the same standard of living and I guess it will be reduced to little above the median in Europe. Still, I think your elites will push and push until your welfare state and high standard of living has a broken back. You don’t have to be a moron to understand that 7 of 8 parties in your parliament dream of making Sweden into India. I don’t know if you have been to India but I will tell you – It is nothing you would like but that actually what your elites wants for you.
Even the radical liberals and the socialist in my country (Denmark) find your elite disgusting and dangerous for Scandinavia. They have pretty much the same opinion in Iceland, Norway and Finland. You are about to destroy your own country and the only thing the Swedes do is to hold demonstrations for tolerance, multiculturalism, internationalism and diversity. It is just insanity. What is wrong with you? Why don’t you vote your socialist and liberal parties out of parliament? Really, I don’t care about the Swedes and Sweden. I do on the other hand care that your enormous social and economical problems your elite are creating will spill over on Denmark when your country collapse or even worse implode.
Last edited by CharlesMcintyre; 12-26-2014 at 03:27 PM..
Your unemployment rate is fixed around 8 percent. That is close to what your unemployment levels looked like in 1990-1994. What your government and media are not talking about (which they do in any country in Europe) is that you have something called under-unemployment. Under-unemployment means people who have certain skills (like college education) but work a job which require no academic skill at all. It also refers to people who have a trade diploma (for example an electrician) who works in a coffee shop. Among the under-unemployed you also find people whom work part time but want to work full time. There is also a large number of hidden unemployment, people who have dropped out of the system and are therefore not counted as unemployed. There are different measurements but your real unemployment/under-unemployment/hidden unemployment rate is more likely close to 15 percent. Your median income increase in relation to inflation from 1993 and beyond is slowing considerable. Looking at the HDI-index and other social measurements you find that Sweden has an increasing group of people with very low incomes and in many cases paid directly by the government. This included Swedes who have been crowded out by the effects of your financial policy and globalization but in a large extent it is immigrants from third world countries who lack cultural, social and educational-capital to gain access to the Swedish labor-market. More so – your country does not create very little new employment-opportunities. Most of the 300,000 jobs (or whatever) which have been created the last years are jobs which are created automatically through an increase in population such as nurses, doctors, firemen, police and so on. Jobs in the private sector (which actually finance your country) show little overall growth. Even if your systems worked with full effect about 1/3 of your unemployed would still be unemployed. You government does increase the pool of labor faster than your welfare state and private corporation can swallow.
Your non-European immigrant (on average) not only lack education which in demand but your entire economy has a surplus of workers. The unemployment rate among ethnic Swedes is already high. Economically the consequences are not only reduced salaries (although not as stark as in United States) but high unemployment among immigrants which takes tax-money from the government (in-direct also corporations) who cannot employ the already existing unemployed. If you economy had people in demand (other than certain people with certain skills) immigration would be good thing from an economical perspective. Your immigration policy is actually the opposite from all conventional wisdom.
Your household debt ratio has increased from 92.2 percent to 163 percent. The obvious reasons are that housing has become a speculative commodity. The increase of housing prices stem from that Central Bank keep the intrest rates low and Banks issue loans to bad creditors. Housing has also become more expensive because your government and corporation do not build housing in the current rate needed to house all the immigrants give permanent residency every year. The reason why your government and corporations does not build housing is because of regulations, taxes and that your government sees housing as way of saving and earning money. The median immigrant, working in low-paid job cannot afford buying a house or apartment. Currently, Sweden has a slight deflation but the historical inflation (which is massive since Sweden abolished the Gold Standard in 1931/1961) and combined with the rising prices of housing it means that people (immigrants or not) are not able to save money in the same pace as needed for buying a house. Your housing market prices are rising faster than people can save money to even be able to pay the first deposit. It also has to be mentioned that you don’t build very little Public housing. Although, this is correct decision the consequences when very little is built (pressing down prices) is that your country will end up having a growing homeless population. What I understand you have more than 5000 homeless in Stockholm. In the 1990 these were just a few hundred and most of them were druggies. Sweden has an increasing number of unemployed people with no drug-addiction sleeping. What is worse, you are crowded-out by thousands of Roma EU-immigrants who have come the last ten years to make a living on the streets of pretty much all your medium to large cities.
I don’t think the Roma begging hurt your economy in any significant way. They are not immigrants. They come to Sweden and the rest of Europe as tourists. They are there temporary and travel home during the winter season. As citizens of another EU-country they have actually little access to your welfare system. They are in Sweden as tourists who happen to be begging or commit petty thefts for a living. Not all of them course but they have really no other skills which they can use in Eastern Europe or in Western Europe. Those who send home money abroad would be the larger immigrant groups. Still, I don’t think the effect would be more than marginal on your economy other than that it creates social consequences which have to be solved with government intervention. Your balance of balance is for sure not affected by a gypsies sending money home. I can assure you that.
Swedish children are high-performance students compared to most Western countries including Denmark. What is driving your rating down in PISA and other rankings are your migration community. School-performance is inherited. Still, the migrant community is not “all to blame” for your bad results. Your school system is actually deeply dysfunctional. Your children are not allowed to reach their potential.You focus on soft skills such as argumentation than actually skills which is demanded by the labor market such as mathematics and STEM-subjects. Your government is constantly reducing the quality of education system so you more children pass school. More so, your liberal/socialist governments believe that they can hide unemployment but increasing enrollment into higher education which means that more and more people leaves universities which no possibility to find a good job. This means an increase of poverty and devaluation of the middle class.
…………………..
You don’t have to be an economists to understand that the music is slowing down in Sweden and when it all come a halt (although not economically possible) your will end up with the biggest bag of failed excrement politics in the history. You media, corporations, academia, bureaucrat and government will have destroyed the Swedish welfare state. It is not all of surplus-immigration (although an increasing part of it) but because your policy since the 1970 have been negative for your economy. The only reason why your welfare state is alive and kicking is because the indigenous people of Sweden are highly productive. Your bag of excrement politics will in the end drown your people and they will not be able to pay for it anymore. If you look at your housing market it is just a matter of time until it pops. In the worst case scenario you will have another 1990-crisis and that on top on crisis of 2007. You will not be able to have the same standard of living and I guess it will be reduced to little above the median in Europe. Still, I think your elites will push and push until your welfare state and high standard of living has a broken back. You don’t have to be a moron to understand that 7 of 8 parties in your parliament dream of making Sweden into India. I don’t know if you have been to India but I will tell you – It is nothing you would like but that actually what your elites wants for you.
Even the radical liberals and the socialist in my country (Denmark) find your elite disgusting and dangerous for Scandinavia. They have pretty much the same opinion in Iceland, Norway and Finland. You are about to destroy your own country and the only thing the Swedes do is to hold demonstrations for tolerance, multiculturalism, internationalism and diversity. It is just insanity. What is wrong with you? Why don’t you vote your socialist and liberal parties out of parliament? Really, I don’t care about the Swedes and Sweden. I do on the other hand care that your enormous social and economical problems your elite are creating will spill over on Denmark when your country collapse or even worse implode.
Great so the only part you disagree with me on is that the outflow of money from Sweden is negative to our trade balance?
My reply to that is; I never said it was a major factor, but it is still negative.
As far as crashing the country with this bull**** I agree with you that it would be terrible if it spilled over on Denmark, Especially since moving to Denmark is my first exit strategy if this crap continues...
Great so the only part you disagree with me on is that the outflow of money from Sweden is negative to our trade balance?
My reply to that is; I never said it was a major factor, but it is still negative.
As far as crashing the country with this bull**** I agree with you that it would be terrible if it spilled over on Denmark, Especially since moving to Denmark is my first exit strategy if this crap continues...
Yes, outflow of capital (or what is called; Net capital outflow) is not hurting the balance of trade in some significant way. At least not when a few thousand low-income beggars send money they have gathered back home. We rather have their money circulating in our economy but the effect ought to be very small. People don’t like the beggars for other reasons and beggars create more social problems than economical problems. At least when we talk about the currents levels.
Apparently, the center-right Alliance and the socialist-Green government decided to become a cartel yesterday. They have promised each other that they will abstain from voting if it would hinder the ruling minority government to not get their budget through parliament. The idea is to create stable minority government so no block need to negotiate with the Swedish Democrats to craft a parliamentary majority budget. If the Alliance becomes larger than the Socialist-Greens than the Socialist-Greens in the election of 2018, the Socialist-Greens will do the same thing for the Alliance. What they really have created is some kind of ad-hoc coalition or a Cartel were the right and left will abstain from real politics. Instead the differences between the “left and right” will be shown by argumentation rather than voting in parliament. So, a minority government will be able to function as a majority government.
What I find pretty interesting is that the Alliance is actually larger than the Red-Green government because they have not included the Left Party. The left Party has said they will continue to support a Red-Green government still they are not officially part of the Red-Green government. They have not even been included in the negotiations (just been informed) about the discussions between the center-right and the socialist-greens. Still, they will do what it wanted from them – support the Red-Green government. What this means is that the Swedish Democrats have become the only real opposition party represented in the Swedish parliament. It seems that, the seven party cartel will now investigate if they can make this “December-agreement” (is that what they are calling it in Sweden?) into law making Sweden into a full-blown banana-republic. The headline in Politiken.dk, “Der foregår et kæmpestort eksperiment i svensk politik” (There is a huge experiment in Swedish politics)
The Danish establishment really thinks that something is really wrong with Sweden. The Danish establishment has some serious issues with plutocracy but the Swedish establishment. If our politicians did the same to us you would have been uproar and we would hold massive demonstrations outside parliament demanding a re-election. In your country, people just write their frustrations on twitter and facebook or anonymously on the internet. While ordinary Swedes seem not to like what your political elites have done your media (and other elites) seem to be more than happy about it. Still, ordinary Swedes don’t do anything about it.
The agreement between the center-right Alliance and the Red-Greens will continue until 2022. What it will mean is that in the elections of 2018 and 2022 most (if not all) of your parties will be forced to leave the parliament. The Swedish Democrats will rapidly grow in the 2018 and 2022 elections. They would have grown anyway but what is new is that after the December-agreement, even people who are for open-borders and free immigration will reject your political elites because of their plutocratic and cartel-like agreement. Your establishment is committing suicide. Although it is fun so see Sweden coming apart you might consider to at least be prepared to move abroad. The coming next eight years, with an expected economical down-turn and coming financial crisis, your country will shown signs of what will become of your country if you continue to current path of liberalism. I don’t only mean uncontrolled immigration regardless of the demand on the labor market. It is just one of many things that will hurt your country really bad and maybe even turn it into a second and later third world country. At least you can pride yourself that your meatballs, cured salmon and pickled herring will taste better than the Danish ones even in the future.
Six parties committing themselves until 2022 seems like a very immature idea to me. Many of these leading politicians are young and/or without experience at this level also. The world is changing around us quickly. New events shape the political agenda continuously. There is absolutely no way they can guarantee this shaky alliance to stay floatable for eight years, or even four.
The right-wing party, Moderaterna, will face a major identity crisis sooner or later within this new alliance. I can't imagine old school right-wing voters staying faithful to Moderaterna only to support a left-wing government to keep Sweden Democrats away from influence. After all, M and SD do have quite a lot in common on a number of issues, and M continue to lose voters to SD according to surveys. It will be interesting to see opinion polls over the next months.
Fredrik Reinfeldt has been a disaster for Sweden. Plain and simple. I can't think of many worse prime ministers in Scandinavia in peace time, despite handling the economy pretty well in a difficult time. I saw an interview with him on television on Christmas Day. How he sees modern day Sweden and brush aside the value of traditions, was shocking to me. Unfortunately, more madness awaits conservative Swedes. Apparently he has handpicked a female idealogical clone of himself as a successor to run the party.
I feel sorry for the Swedes. I talked to my Swedish friends (they vote on Moderaterna) and they were extremely frustrated about how their vote is being (mis)-used.
On the bright side, I don't the current constellation (Everyone vs. SD) will last for long.
The feeling here is quite the opposite. Merely for the reason that a minority government could never rule Finland. As Finland has always been a society of clear majority governments (otherwise they will fall within a day), the "december-agreement" seem quite... well, weird. While I understand nobody has anything to win within a new election except for MAYBE SD. And as Moderaterna gets their say it's a huge plus for our Kokoomus (moderaterna), while the Social Democrats are a train wreck.
About SD, I think the popular opinion in Finland is "förstår i Sverige, men jag vill inte ha dem här".
Nyval! Säger vi i Finland. Fast 100 gånger tills vi får en majoritetsregering.
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