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Russia protects Russian people living in Ukraine, nothing "shameful imperialist" about that.
Protects from who? Why they didn't protect them before Ukraine changed its orientation toward west?
Quote:
Why do you think values in Eastern Europe are different? It's because of communism and Russian infuence.
Is because more circulation of peoples and cultures and better preserved natural environment, as I said (though probably in prehistory the nature in EE was also healthier, given the higher fertility of soil more sources of fresh water). WE is a dead end.
Russia has not much to do with this. Their intervention in countries from EE is perceived as mostly negative, especially in contemporary (since early 20th century) period.
Communism may have had a positive role, in the sense that preserved EE from getting too messy with the capitalism (read consummerism). We here have now a reference, an experience that may be inspirative, not in the sense that the criminal ideology of communism was good for anything but in the sense that alteratives may be found to the capitalist system.
Protects from who? Why they didn't protect them before Ukraine changed its orientation toward west?
Is because more circulation of peoples and cultures and better preserved natural environment, as I said (though probably in prehistory the nature in EE was also healthier, given the higher fertility of soil more sources of fresh water). WE is a dead end.
Russia has not much to do with this. Their intervention in countries from EE is perceived as mostly negative, especially in contemporary (since early 20th century) period.
Communism may have had a positive role, in the sense that preserved EE from getting too messy with the capitalism (read consummerism). We here have now a reference, an experience that may be inspirative, not in the sense that the criminal ideology of communism was good for anything but in the sense that alteratives may be found to the capitalist system.[/quote]
Protect from the regime which is now in power in Ukraine. Previously that was not necessary.
There is nothing criminal about communism, it makes people more important than money, free healthcare, free education, job security, etc. Of course there were bad things too, for example Ceausescu was a dictator, but there are more positive aspects than negative ones. Communism is the main reason why Eastern europeans are not selfish and americanised like Western Europeans.
In Belarus, we don't have any internal chaos or conflicts. And I think most people would not like to be a part of Poland. Maybe some minority would agree, but it is definitely not a popular idea.
Part of the population would like to be a member of the EU, but a part of Poland? No..
By the way I'm a big fan of your president. Just compare Belarus to Ukraine... people in Belarus live so much better. I think Belarus is even better than Russia, less maffia, cleaner, more social care, etc.
Lukashenko preserved the positive things of the Soviet-Union. I'm sure however not everyone likes his autoritarian style.
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Maybe socially but not economically or culturally. There is a cold, rough element of their culture that will always put them at a disasvantage. There is a reason why they are poor.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takeo3
Slovenes and Czechs are the most "westernised" among the slavic peoples(culture, habits, etc. close to Germanic peoples), Poland and Hungary have preserved more of their eastern European roots, altough got intensily westernised too since the Middle Ages, part of Romania got westernised (Transsylvania) in part because of German and Austrian colonisation, but other parts haven't. One can say Romanians should be western because they speak a Latin language. However during many centuries the most parts of Romania has been ruled by non-western powers and peoples, and got tremendously influenced by them. (especially Slavic influence) Bulgarians have never been western, their culture is a mix of Slavic, Greek and Turkish, and distinctly Balcanic. Albanians too can hardly be called western, altough a part is roman-catholic. Turkish influence on Albania was tremendous.
You just have to listen to folk music to understand which peoples are close to the West and which aren't.
Poland is not Western Europe, you can spot them a mile away they have a very distinctive look and accent. They also come with the cold attitude and love to rudely stare at strangers. They are very different to Western Europeans.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric
Re: "Will WE learn from EE to live in harmony with nature and will they adopt the values of Eastern (especially Orthodox) countries in respect of life purpose, moral principles, family, human relations and so on?"
That is a good question. One thing I'd suggest to add is that it is not only 'Eastern' values but the continued contemplation and say the reconsideration of 'Western' values considering the diametrical histories between Eastern Europe and Western Europe in the post-war.
It is apparent that in some countries the 'experiment' with 'Western' values has given it a perception of great disappointment. I could understand that but it wasn't 'Eastern' values which got the boot from off the throats of the EE states it was Western idealism which broke that Wall of division. It certainly got no help from one state which had a pretty tight grip on the geographical area.
With a Eastern Europe now on in postwar and after seeing the bricks destroyed from the infamous Wall I'm not surprised that some states coming off 'Western' experience are looking in another direction namely East. Some of the orientation nestles around nationalist aspirations or economics or trade.
Question is that linkup good for their societies? Is the Eurasian Union perhaps a better deal than the EU's? Each country of course will calibrate itself toward either. But I'd suggest if they are looking east simply because of their discontent with the Western way well they cannot be thinking very astutely. The East perhaps will give them 'prosperity' but it isn't trained at all in focusing on human rights and freedom if history is guide. Eyeing economic prosperity without a concomitant focus on 'values' is possibly putting them back into the historical fires. Just my take. The EE future will be interesting.
Are you mad!? Giving my money to Bulgaria and Romania is enough but Russia and all those stan countries! You have got be joking! Never in a month of Sundays dear, there is a reason why rich countries are rich. Not every country can be rich!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittarius Sirius
Eastern Europe will not only achieve western levels of prosperity
but it will surpass them
as the decades pass, the political and economic centre of Europe will keep moving eastward
By the early 2050s Eastern Europe will rival Western Europe in Political and economic power
and by the 2060s it will surpass it
If you want a future European power, look no further than Poland
which will in the years to come become the regional leader of Eastern Europe
It won't be Russia who will be the major power in Eastern Europe, it will be the nations which were dominated by them in the late 20th century
by the 2040s I envision a very close alliance or bloc between eastern European nations, led by Poland that covers both economic and security matters
I also envision a weak Russia which Is heavily influenced by this polish led bloc and a divided Ukraine and Belarus, borders in eastern Europe will change and Poland will regain it's lost territories as Ukraine and Belarus slip further into chaos and Russia continues to weaken
Picture a Poland stretching from the Baltic to the Black sea with a population of over 100,000,000 people
and an economy to rival Germany, leading a confident assertive and economically booming collation of eastern European states under it's wing
right now in 2015 it may seem like a fantasy
but by 2060, Eastern Europe will be more important than Western Europe and more unified, both economically and militantly
Please look at the rapidly declining population of Eastern European countries for reference to your "fantasty"
In my opinion Germany and Poland or Germans and Poles have much more incommon than Germany and France for example. Most Germans have probably several Polish friends or friends with Polish ancestors. There is a lot of Polish influence in Germany, but there is almost no French influence (at least not here in the Rheinland). Being in Poland and I feel like at home, I had never such a feeling in France.
It's not that "Germany and Poland have much more in common than Germany and France."
It's just that Poland became de facto German colony, ( which you obviously can't say about France,) and of course Germans would feel more comfortable in the newly-acquired colony, where practically everything is bought and sold for their money. While France is France.
"Part of what makes Poland such a good place to invest today is the depth of the bond it has forged with Europe’s leading economy. The relationship benefits both countries. A large part of the German export machine is now based in Poland. Poland gets German investment and markets for its goods, and Germany profits from the opportunity to use Poland as a low-cost, high-quality production platform to compete with East Asia. Indeed, some German industries are able to produce goods in Poland for less than what they would cost to make in China. And Poland offers Germany a friendly business climate, plenty of skilled labor, and, above all, proximity."
So there you have it.
Overall my opinion is such, that all those EE country that boast their "Western nature" have been simply heavily Germanized throughout history, thus losing their original identity and not being able to come up with anything distinctive of their own any longer.
But their bathrooms are clean though, I'm sure, and that I see as a positive development on another hand)))
Protects from who? Why they didn't protect them before Ukraine changed its orientation toward west?
Because there was no such need. It's precisely after the "changed orientation toward West" Eastern Ukrainians became "potential traitors" to the country's drive to "glorious Western future," they became the "false and shameful past," that needed to be stomped out. By whom are you asking? By "new democratic" government in Kiev, that started its infamous ruling with depriving Russian language of official status - the language widely spoken in the East of the country.
Amazing how you conveniently missed all these developments, apparently, ( and probably not only you.)
I believe so, it will take time but its an achievable goal, most eastern european countries are showing good growth in their economies aswell as shown hugh improvements in human rights.
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Giving my money to Bulgaria and Romania is enough but Russia and all those stan countries! You have got be joking! Never in a month of Sundays dear, there is a reason why rich countries are rich. Not every country can be rich!
