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It's typically this Plattenbau and the Eastern German style high rises which are cheap. They would not be my first choice to live. Actually German cities with the exception of the nice historic ones like Tuebingen or Heidelberg are pretty dull and ugly. I believe some of the buildings in your link would probably be very cheap unless they are really in the heart of down town.
Kaltmiete does not include utilities.
Would this be an example of what you are talking about?
How much would you guess rent would be in a place like this? - links to apartment finder websites would be appreciative , i know you've showed me some in the past but i'd like to see more.
also how much are utilities and whatever other stuff you may have to pay?
I've lived in Germany, the Netherlands, the US, and another country and Germany has by far the lowest costs of living. It is not even worth the discussion. You won't find apartments for 300 - 400 euros in the US, not even in the worst crime ridden cities.
Of course you will. There are tons of apartments at that price range in the U.S.
Even in NYC, there are 300,000 public housing units, with median rent below $300 US. And there are hundreds of thousands of additional Section 8 units, with median rent in the $400-500 range. And that's NYC, the most expensive city. In regular places like Kansas or Michigan there are tons of market rate apartments in that price range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drro
It isn't just rents but housing costs, groceries, health care and insurance, mobile phone plans, internet, cable, transportation, personal care items, college(free in Germany, will cost you at least 100 - 200k in the US). Except for some luxery products, the day to day expenses are much lower in Germany.
All of this is just a complete lie, except for college. But you half-lied about that too; average college costs in the U.S. are around 2k-3k per year, as 75% of students receive financial aid. No idea where you came up with the idea that it costs 200k to attend college in the U.S.
The only thing you got right is that college in Germany is free. College in the U.S. is only free if you are very poor, very smart, or attend an Ivy League school and your parents aren't rich.
I was just recently for the second time in Leipzig, a week or so ago and I didn't like it, for some reason it was way too congested with cars and didn't strike me with nice visuals. I'd rather look at Dresden than Leipzig.
Dresden is a much nicer city than Leipzig, yet is still very affordable for German standards.
How much would you guess rent would be in a place like this? - links to apartment finder websites would be appreciative , i know you've showed me some in the past but i'd like to see more.
also how much are utilities and whatever other stuff you may have to pay?
Yes, those would typically be cheap although it depends on the city and location within the city. There are huge differences in rental/house prices in Germany. Munich is expensive and Eastern Germany is cheap. Utilities and other expenses would typically be another 100 - 200 euros. Although you can rent apartments all-in, I rented a fairly nice 2 bedroom apartment with everything included for 450 euros in Germany once. You can look at immowelt.de or immoscout24.de for apartment listings.
Costs of living alone would not be a good criteria to move anywhere, there are so many other factors. I could imagine the average outgoing American not fitting well in Eastern Germany. Although the US is pushing it at the moment, costs of living are pretty much out of control, especially along the coasts. So many people living paycheck to paycheck and struggling.
I've lived in Germany, the Netherlands, the US, and another country and Germany has by far the lowest costs of living. It is not even worth the discussion. You won't find apartments for 300 - 400 euros in the US, not even in the worst crime ridden cities. And even if you find something at that price, you'll be in immediate danger. That's why the OP started this topic I guess, he sees immoscout24.de or immowelt.de and asks himself as an American 'how can it be this cheap'?
It isn't just rents but housing costs, groceries, health care and insurance, mobile phone plans, internet, cable, transportation, personal care items, college(free in Germany, will cost you at least 100 - 200k in the US). Except for some luxery products, the day to day expenses are much lower in Germany.
I am a dual German/American citizen. Have been to Germany more than a few times. I love both Berlin and Munich, but Munich is way above my means. Likewise I have been priced out of Berlin. I have been looking both in Dresden and Leipzig. I have been to Dresden, but not spent much time there. To me it is just too touristy. I like the fact that it has much to see, but it is all reconstructed. Have never been to Leipzig but have researched the city. Looked at videos, used Google Earth to "walk" down many streets. I was asking for anyones feedback, who actually lives there. Just to get an idea of what they think. Yes the prices attracted me, some time ago. I am a retired gay man and looking for a place to retire out of the US. I am not happy with the way things are going here. I wanted to move when I was younger, but did not have citizenship and therefore could not get a job. This is a move I have wanted to do for over thirty years! It's just within the past five years that it has become feasible for me.
I was just recently for the second time in Leipzig, a week or so ago and I didn't like it, for some reason it was way too congested with cars and didn't strike me with nice visuals. I'd rather look at Dresden than Leipzig.
Interesting. I wouldn't have thought that. I was comparing the residential areas, not the inner cities. Actually the Neustadt in Dresden does not look all that nice to me. Like I said though, I have not been to Leipzig to compare. I have a dog, and it seemed that Leipzig had more parks to walk around in. Dresden only has the area around the Elbe. I haven't been to the hilly areas though.
From a visual aspect Leipzig and Dresden both are quite beautiful.
It's also true that they are quite affordable compared to other cities of similar size in Germany but as others have pointed out, there are reasons behind that. Just like in the US, the more desirable cities in Germany tend to be more expensive.
I for example would not want to live in either city, at a push I would choose Leipzig ahead of Dresden.
Also I hope that the OP doesn't take that one suggestion seriously, that the cost of living is so much cheaper in Germany compared to the US. That is not true at all! Germany like many of the richer European countries (Especially further up north) is quite expensive actually. Even the so much praised medical care is getting more expensive as we speak, as more and more has to covered out of ones own pocket, especially in the dental field.
I would look at Duesseldorf if I were you.
While still expensive it is a great City form a quality of life aspect but not as expensive as some of the other big players in Germany yet although this is changing rapidly to be honest.
I am a dual German/American citizen. Have been to Germany more than a few times. I love both Berlin and Munich, but Munich is way above my means. Likewise I have been priced out of Berlin. I have been looking both in Dresden and Leipzig. I have been to Dresden, but not spent much time there. To me it is just too touristy. I like the fact that it has much to see, but it is all reconstructed. Have never been to Leipzig but have researched the city. Looked at videos, used Google Earth to "walk" down many streets. I was asking for anyones feedback, who actually lives there. Just to get an idea of what they think. Yes the prices attracted me, some time ago. I am a retired gay man and looking for a place to retire out of the US. I am not happy with the way things are going here. I wanted to move when I was younger, but did not have citizenship and therefore could not get a job. This is a move I have wanted to do for over thirty years! It's just within the past five years that it has become feasible for me.
I think cities like Berlin, Duesseldorf, Koeln, or the Ruhr Area would be more open minded towards gay people than Eastern Germany in general. The Ruhr Area is still cheap, lots of old industry like Detroit, not quite as run down and without all the crime. If you have German citizenship, you should even be entitled to social welfare if you can't make ends meet.
Concerning prices, Germany is still much cheaper than the US overall although housing has indeed gotten more expensive.
Don't forget that with online apartment listings at sites like immowelt.de, most apartments do not include kitchen cabinets, sink or appliances. You get an empty kitchen and after moving in, you buy and install (or pay for installation) of all the kitchen hardware.
The exception is if you find a listing that says "mit EBK" (Einbauküche), which provides a fully equipped kitchen. This might cost a little more than one without EBK, but it is a good choice for someone who is not sure if they will stay in a place beyond the first year's lease.
I have never lived in Leipzig, but I have been there many times and would consider it as a good place to live. It has one of the largest main train stations in central Europe, and has excellent high speed rail connections in almost all directions. It also has some lakes south of the city, and outdoor areas like Erzgebirge (Ore Mountains) and Harz Mountains are within day trip distance.
Leipzig has some areas that I would consider renting in like Connewitz or Markkleberg, south of downtown. Both have good S-Bahn connections to downtown and the main train station.
The one downside is that although I speak German at a comfortable level, the local Sächsische dialect is more difficult for me to understand than German that I am accustomed hear to in the western states of Germany or in Berlin.
Of course you will. There are tons of apartments at that price range in the U.S.
Even in NYC, there are 300,000 public housing units, with median rent below $300 US. And there are hundreds of thousands of additional Section 8 units, with median rent in the $400-500 range. And that's NYC, the most expensive city. In regular places like Kansas or Michigan there are tons of market rate apartments in that price range.
All of this is just a complete lie, except for college. But you half-lied about that too; average college costs in the U.S. are around 2k-3k per year, as 75% of students receive financial aid. No idea where you came up with the idea that it costs 200k to attend college in the U.S.
The only thing you got right is that college in Germany is free. College in the U.S. is only free if you are very poor, very smart, or attend an Ivy League school and your parents aren't rich.
I think this a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I don't know where you got your information. You sound like a very ignorant conservative! Yes there are cheap apartments and they are all subsidized. Not just anyone can get into that kind of place. You have to meet certain criteria. For section eight, it's even harder. You seem to think that all poor people in the US get subsidized housing. You are very very much mistaken! Just ask any homeless family.
Then your little snide comment about college. Once again you are picking information from who knows where. To get financial aid for college, again you must qualify. They don't just throw money at you! Trust me, I worked my way through school, because I didn't qualify! For someone not born into a wealthy family, it is very hard to get into an American college! Another conservative lie, is that poor people get into school for free. Those grants, they are so want to get rid of, only fall to the best students. And yes I know, European Universities are not that easy to get into either. But at least if you meet the requirements it is free. No so in the good ole USA! And you say 75% get financial aid. Do you know what percentage of that 75% get so far into debt, that they struggle just to survive after college? You my friend are an American joke!
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, i know you've showed me some in the past but i'd like to see more.
