Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Do you think that after the crisis Italy, Spain, Portugal and Greece remain wealthy and developed countries?
Southern Europe has been in crisis for the better part of fifteen hundred years, and there is no relief in sight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KuuKulgur
But... but...but IT {Greece} WAS THE BIRTHPLACE OF THE WESTERN WORLD.
Can we please stop with this romantic eighteenth century crap that Greece was the birthplace of the western world? Not even the westerners of the time who made that cheap propaganda actually believed it. And we see the results today (e.g. see above).
The forefathers of western civilization were Attila, Genseric, Theodoric and the like, and the father Charlemagne.
To the OP, you keep asking virtually the same question in some four or five threads by now. So you too, please stop with these romantic fantasies of southern Europe, it ain't gonna happen unless your focus in life is to look backwards into history, way back.
Southern Europe has been in crisis for the better part of fifteen hundred years, and there is no relief in sight.
Can we please stop with this romantic eighteenth century crap that Greece was the birthplace of the western world? Not even the westerners of the time who made that cheap propaganda actually believed it. And we see the results today (e.g. see above).
The forefathers of western civilization were Attila, Genseric, Theodoric and the like, and the father Charlemagne.
To the OP, you keep asking virtually the same question in some four or five threads by now. So you too, please stop with these romantic fantasies of southern Europe, it ain't gonna happen unless your focus in life is to look backwards into history, way back.
Southern Europe has been in crisis for the better part of fifteen hundred years, and there is no relief in sight.
Can we please stop with this romantic eighteenth century crap that Greece was the birthplace of the western world? Not even the westerners of the time who made that cheap propaganda actually believed it. And we see the results today (e.g. see above).
The forefathers of western civilization were Attila, Genseric, Theodoric and the like, and the father Charlemagne.
To the OP, you keep asking virtually the same question in some four or five threads by now. So you too, please stop with these romantic fantasies of southern Europe, it ain't gonna happen unless your focus in life is to look backwards into history, way back.
Good Luck!
We wouldn't be where we are if it wasn't for Eratostene, Pythagoras, Archimede, Plato and a bunch of other half nude men.
Italy was the richest place on the planet for centuries, and not talking about Roman Empire. People seem to have forgotten the massive Florentine, Sienan and Venetian contributions? Even today Florentine architecture, art and culture reeks of wealth and privilege.
Florence/Venice/Siena were the wealth centers of the world while Northern Europeans were still living in wood huts and engaging in hunter/gatherer societies.
Maybe Greece and Portugal aren't wealthy, but still far better off than Bulgaria. Some regions in the UK or in Eastern Germany are by this measurement also not that wealthy.
Absurd to think that Greece or Portugal will turn into some kind of a third world country.
I own a vacation condo in Marbella, Spain where I'm currently staying and traveling around southern Spain. Spain is highly developed, safe and beautiful but less wealthy than the USA/Canada/Germany I believe due to:
1) They think too locally. They favor laws that protect the worker and are not supportive of laws that would allow their businesses to export profitably. This is also reflected in their tax code.
2) They are too dependent on retirees and tourists....when the Global Financial Crisis hit, they were especially hard hit and are finally beginning to pull out of it. Since their real estate values are lower now than they were in 2007, it affects the wealth of everyone that has owned a house from that date to now.
3) This may be a stretch but I believe they are overly focused on how things look rather than how things work. For example, the condo where I bought has incredible views of the Mediterranean, 5 terraces, is all marble flooring, has aesthetic touches throughout to add visual appeal....but the electrical, plumbing, insulation, positioning and functionality of some of the arrangement in the bathrooms leaves much to be desired.
Still Spain was a world leader for centuries, beat back Islam out of Europe, discovered the New World, and has some of the worlds best architecture. Also where I am, seeing Bentleys, Ferraris, Maseratis, and Porsche Panameras is common here so people are doing quite well here....though most of the big money is not local.
Back to the thread topic, the southern Euro countries all have a less focus on work and a more balanced life/work mentality than North America for example which is reflected in their long lifespan. I don't think they'll change that much but Spain has adopted some laws recently to encourage some capital investments and is starting to take their economy to a much better place and led the EU in GDP growth last year and expected to do so again this year.
Greece is still mired in mud, Italy is stagnant and the folks are restless, Portugal is steady being Portugal and doesn't want to be in the rat race, and Spain is re-emerging.
I don't know why people feel the need to compare northern Europe to southern Europe constantly here. They are different cultures and life styles. Wealth or GDP doesn't necessarily measure the happiness or contentment of people or the lifestyle they live. Not everyone's priority is to be the richest and baddest at the expense of family, happiness, culture and longevity.
Spain's dependency rate is skyrocketing. By the year 2021, Spain will have SIX retirees and students for every ONE employed person. Spain's birth rate of 1.3 children per woman, is among the lowest in the world. And since the 2008 recession, and 25% unemployment rate, they are no longer getting immigration.
Spain's dependency rate is skyrocketing. By the year 2021, Spain will have SIX retirees and students for every ONE employed person. Spain's birth rate of 1.3 children per woman, is among the lowest in the world. And since the 2008 recession, and 25% unemployment rate, they are no longer getting immigration.
Might we say they are in the slowlane1.3?
Well it's a great point that all of the dependents stacked on each worker is an anchor.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
