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Sorry, but what do you mean with that? Percentages of GDP? No one says that public spendings goes completely to health care and pensions.
Well, if we include education, health care and pensions, then the total becomes 26.8% of GDP. So what the heck is the remaining 20% spent on? Don't say police or military, because we know very well that Germany spend almost nothing on that.
And in terms of wasteful government spending, Germany is not the worst offender.
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Originally Posted by lukas1973
No one knows how much it will cost. We even don't know how many refugees live in Germany at the moment and how many will stay here. There are many different estimates. A gloomy scenario predicts for 2016 about 0.5% of GDP, but that's gross spendings, without counting increasing tax revenues. So net spendings will be lower. And in the long run it will be a gain for the economy and the social security system.
Forecast tend to always underestimate costs. Sweden has gotten refugees for some years, 2015 was not their first year of high numbers. They estimate they will spend 1.5 - 2% of GDP on asylum seekers in 2016. This does not include indirect costs, and it also based on much lower numbers in 2016. It is going to cost way more than 0.5% of GDP in Germany, the inflow to Germany is almost the same as Sweden per capita.
Also, how will they benefit long term. They will cost less long term, they will never benefit. That is because a large segment will never work, and the ones who do work often have low salaries. It will not fix Germany demographic problem, it will make it worse.
No, your 24% figure is total nonsense. Go to the calculator, insert 3000, use category 3 for married couple, and 2 children. The result is €2185. The employer is paying €3500.
So what is (3500 - 2185) / 3500? Certainly not 24%.
I have supposed €3,000 for tax deductions. And child allowance is €380. So (3,500 - 2,625) / 3,500 = 25%. Pretty close to the 24%
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A lot of the time it is wasted on people who do not need government help. For instance they give out high pensions, they pay public workers way above market rate, they have widespread disability fraud, and they waste money on projects that aren't really needed.
Yes, I agree here
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In addition, it is important to have limits on how much they can spend on one person. It makes little sense to spend 1 million euro to keep someone alive one year, when homeless people are freezing to death on the streets.
That's an inappropriate example. There are more than enough shelter for homeless people. It's probably impossible to prevent that every homeless people will stay safe. I see it here in Düsseldorf, some people aren't convincible to live in a homeless shelter. You can't solve this issue by spending more for homeless people.
But I get what you are saying.
Of course there are always a lot of inefficiencies, but overall it doesn't seem so bad in Germany. Public spendings are relatively low in Germany compared to most other European countries. Germany has a very lean public sector (public employment as a percentage of total employment).
I have supposed €3,000 for tax deductions. And child allowance is €380. So (3,500 - 2,625) / 3,500 = 25%. Pretty close to the 24%
Child allowance is not a tax credit, it is a lump sum everyone get, even the ones who earn nothing. Hence adding it as a tax credit makes little sense.
I do not dispute that the working poor get some of their money back through benefits, but they wouldn't need to if their income tax wasn't 40%.
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That's an inappropriate example. There are more than enough shelter for homeless people. It's probably impossible to prevent that every homeless people will stay safe. I see it here in Düsseldorf, some people aren't convincible to live in a homeless shelter. You can't solve this issue by spending more for homeless people.
But I get what you are saying.
No there isn't, especially since the refugee crisis. For instance I recently heard a story from Sweden where a 60 year old man froze to death after he was kicked out of a hospital. He has tried to ask the government for housing, but they couldn't help him. It was only reported by alternative media, for some reason mainstream media couldn't care less.
In Germany cold waves and heat waves has killed plenty of people. It wouldn't cost much to save them, but not everyone is prioritised equally.
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Originally Posted by lukas1973
Of course there are always a lot of inefficiencies, but overall it doesn't seem so bad in Germany. Public spendings are relatively low in Germany compared to most other European countries. Germany has a very lean public sector (public employment as a percentage of total employment).
I don't care. You were trying to sell a lie and I'm just reminding you that what you see in Marbella is not the reality of the country.
The country's improvement is a mirage. Only a few are benefiting from it, but it hasn't reached the populace, which are the ones who deserve to see it happen after all they've gone through.
We're still having to go out on the streets to protest against the consequences of cuttings for things like education. Indeed, yesterday the people from my city went on a strike because our educative system, which was awful in the first place, took such a hard hit. We won't forget everything that's been taken from us, that which they don't intend on giving back.
And currently, even though our unemployment rate is over the roof PSOE and C's, who're trying to make it to the government, are proposing reforms that will make employment even worse than it already is. That even our socialist party is happy to screw us over is disheartening.
There isn't much hope for the average person in this country, not the way things are now.
But you can't see it from your comfortable possition, leaving the country whenever you want to. There's no way you could know anything.
Okay, I surrender...you know everything there is possibly to know and I know nothing. Outside of the wicked town of Marbella, which is less Spain than Gibraltar, everyone is bankrupt or worse, it's more 3rd world than any country of Africa or Central America and more dangerous as well, therefore, for my own good, I promise not to venture into the dark abyss that is Spain and stay in the Wicked city Marbella.
Okay, I surrender...you know everything there is possibly to know and I know nothing. Outside of the wicked town of Marbella, which is less Spain than Gibraltar, everyone is bankrupt or worse, it's more 3rd world than any country of Africa or Central America and more dangerous as well, therefore, for my own good, I promise not to venture into the dark abyss that is Spain and stay in the Wicked city Marbella.
You're only in love with the country because you do not have to raise your kids here.
You will not have your kids attend a school that's understaffed, where a teacher has to teach a subject that's not their specialty because the administration is awful. With an education system that's only good at having a high drop out rate. With a rather mediocre, but expensive higher education.
You will not have to wait an hour to be attended by a doctor while reading pamphlets about how there isn't enough staff, so please be patient. Oh and while you're here, could you sign this petition to present on Conselleria so maybe, if we make enough noise, they'll send a new doctor our way? Thank you very much!
You do not walk the streets and see shops that ran out of business and have not been taken by anyone yet, because it would be hopeless.
You're only in love with the country because you do not have to raise your kids here.
You will not have your kids attend a school that's understaffed, where a teacher has to teach a subject that's not their specialty because the administration is awful. With an education system that's only good at having a high drop out rate. With a rather mediocre, but expensive higher education.
You will not have to wait an hour to be attended by a doctor while reading pamphlets about how there isn't enough staff, so please be patient. Oh and while you're here, could you sign this petition to present on Conselleria so maybe, if we make enough noise, they'll send a new doctor our way? Thank you very much!
You do not walk the streets and see shops that ran out of business and have not been taken by anyone yet, because it would be hopeless.
You live on a bubble, traveler.
So what caused the problems and what's the solution...higher taxes? We spent the day in malaga yesterday and noticed they dumped all the trash in the middle of the city and it was stinking and unsanitary. Then, while wife was shopping, a pick pocketer grabbed her wallet out of her purse but wife felt it and caught her...the lady tossed the wallet on the ground and ran...you are right, I need to stay in my Marbella bubble.
So what caused the problems and what's the solution...higher taxes?
The solution starts by cleaning up corruption, which cost us a lot of money, and more responsible spending (Why yes, build another white elefant why won't you? That F1 track sure was a smart investment!)
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Originally Posted by Tall Traveler
We spent the day in malaga yesterday and noticed they dumped all the trash in the middle of the city and it was stinking and unsanitary. Then, while wife was shopping, a pick pocketer grabbed her wallet out of her purse but wife felt it and caught her...the lady tossed the wallet on the ground and ran...you are right, I need to stay in my Marbella bubble.
"I've lived and worked in 12 different countries in 5 continents so I've seen plenty"
"A PICKPOCKETER!? HOW DESPICABLE!!! I SHALL STAY IN THE PLACE WHERE NO CRIME EVER HAPPENS (Save for a few corruption scandals involving the mayor but who cares)"
I'm starting to think the "I've seen plenty" part of your narration is purely based on fiction.
In my city, the tax for a married person with 3 underage children earning €3k a month, the base tax without reductions is 27.85%. It can't be close to 50% in Germany for the same sum, their taxes shouldn't be higher than ours.
Take your car and visit Xauen - Chefchauen, 5 hours including ferry.
NO CRIME, tourists are protected.
Prices are low, very low.
Food is baffling.
Also some expats.
Just how Spain was 40 years ago.
Spanish spoken as was a Spanish territory until 1954?
As the inhabitants used to live in Andalusia, sometimes remembers some Andalusian areas such Las Alpujarras and Axarquia.
No BS religion fanatics, they are thown in jail as fast as they open their mouth.
Touts are sometimes a pain, just don't look at them and tell them you don't smoke.
They have laws against touts, "faux guides".
Last edited by Krokodill; 03-06-2016 at 05:49 AM..
The solution starts by cleaning up corruption, which cost us a lot of money, and more responsible spending (Why yes, build another white elefant why won't you? That F1 track sure was a smart investment!)
"I've lived and worked in 12 different countries in 5 continents so I've seen plenty"
"A PICKPOCKETER!? HOW DESPICABLE!!! I SHALL STAY IN THE PLACE WHERE NO CRIME EVER HAPPENS (Save for a few corruption scandals involving the mayor but who cares)"
I'm starting to think the "I've seen plenty" part of your narration is purely based on fiction.
You're an idiot for saying it's despicable to almost have my wife become a victim of a pick pocket....especially when she stopped the thief but even if she didn't...whatever, I'll not respond to fools and idiots that have proven themselves to be thus henceforth...adios.
All of your problems begin and end with the person you see in the mirror.
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