Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-27-2009, 02:38 PM
 
14,247 posts, read 17,927,270 times
Reputation: 13807

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minato ku View Post
I clearly doubt of this data, this number is too different than in 2007 and the other previous years.

Part of the tourism in France GDP

6.8% in 2000
6.6% in 2001
6.6% in 2002
6.4% in 2003
6.4% in 2004
6.3% in 2005
6.2% in 2006
6.2% in 2007

(32th page)
http://www.tourisme.gouv.fr/fr/z2/st..._2007_cor2.pdf

In english for 2007
http://www.tourisme.gouv.fr/fr/z2/st...res_cle-GB.pdf
Minato Ku .... you know you cannot rely on the French Govt. for proper statistics City Data is so much more reliable

Edit .. I think I trust the French Govt. more than the World Travel and Tourism Council
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-27-2009, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Blankity-blank!
11,446 posts, read 16,190,050 times
Reputation: 6963
Many of the medium and larger cities in France have self-service cafeteria style restaurants. You get a tray and go down the line, picking what you want. The main meal is often a choice of 2 or 3 items. Before the cash register you can pick up a small bottle of white or red table wine. The food is reasonably priced and tastes good. These restaurants are not always open, but keep hours during meal times.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2009, 04:01 PM
 
Location: USA
526 posts, read 1,757,064 times
Reputation: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Visvaldis View Post
Many of the medium and larger cities in France have self-service cafeteria style restaurants. You get a tray and go down the line, picking what you want. The main meal is often a choice of 2 or 3 items. Before the cash register you can pick up a small bottle of white or red table wine. The food is reasonably priced and tastes good. These restaurants are not always open, but keep hours during meal times.
Ah, your talking about the soup kitchen
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2009, 05:37 PM
 
549 posts, read 1,665,948 times
Reputation: 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeapple View Post
The weak dollar & economy is supposedly keeping many Americans traveling within the US instead of abroad. Just in the past few years, I hear people commenting on how it's too expensive to travel to Europe.

I also know some people from various European countries who like to stock up on stuff in the US when they visit because it's so much cheaper.


Why?
The dollar is getting weaker, as a consequence, U.S. Americans are becoming poorer. Just compare the minimum wages in Europe vs the U.S.A....

Why do I use the minimun wage as an indicator to make the comparison? because the worst case scenario for any citizen in any country is to make minimum wage...

GDP per capita is not a measurement of the standard of living in an economy and people always try to compare economies by using GDP per capita instead of minimum wages or other indicators. Wrong, wrong, wrong... that is why I use minimum wage...

List of minimum wages by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Argentina: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$8,212 (developing country-American Continent)
1,240 Argentine pesos a month, nationally

Greece: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$13,382
680.59 a month

USA: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$13,624 (American Continent)

The federal minimum wage is $USD 7.25 per hour; states may also set a minimum, in which case the higher of the two is controlling.


Malta: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$13,696

€142.39 a week, combined with an annual mandatory bonus of €270.28 and a €242 annual cost of living increase, automatically adjusted for inflation


Austria: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$13,970

Nationwide collective bargaining agreements set minimum wages by job classification for each industry; the accepted unofficial annual minimum wage is 12,000 to €14,000

Switzerland: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$15,511

A majority of the voluntary collective bargaining agreements contain clauses on minimum compensation, ranging from 2,200 to 4,200 francs per month for unskilled workers and from 2,800 to 5,300 francs per month for skilled employees

San Marino: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$15,871

7.04 per hour

New Zealand: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$16,062 (Oceania)

NZ$12.50 per hour for workers 18 years old or older, and NZ$10.00 per hour for those aged 16 or 17 or in training; there is no statutory minimum wage for employees who are under 16 years old

Canada: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$16,234 (American continent)

Set by each province and territory; ranges from C$8.00 to C$10.00 per hour

France: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$17,563

8.82 per hour; €1,337.70 per month for 151.67 hours worked (or 7 hours every weekday of the month)

Ireland: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$17,773
8.65 per hour

Belgium: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$18,856

1,387.49 a month for workers 21 years of age and over; €1,424.31 a month for workers 21 and a half years of age, with six months of service; €1,440.67 a month for workers 22 years of age, with 12 months of service; coupled with extensive social benefits

Australia: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$19,029 (Oceania)

543.78 Australian dollars per week; set federally by the Australian Fair Pay Commission

Netherlands: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$19,203

1,398.60 per month, €322.75 per week and €64.55 per day for persons 23 and older; between 30-85% of this amount for persons aged 15-22

Luxembourg: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$20,197

1,570.28 per month for unqualified workers over 18; €1,256.22 for those aged 17-18; €1,177.71 for those aged 15-17; €1,884.34 for qualified workers

United Kingdom: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$22,105

£5.73 per hour (aged 22 and older), £4.77 per hour (aged 18-21) or £3.53 per hour (under 18 and finished compulsory education)

Denmark: Lowest possible gross annual wage USD$22,713

Negotiated between unions and employer associations; 100.65 kroner, according to the terms of the country's largest collective bargaining agreement, negotiated in the spring of 2008 and covering almost the entire industrial sector.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gross domestic product - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Standard of living and GDP

GDP per capita is NOT a measurement of the standard of living in an economy. However, it is often used as such an indicator, on the rationale that all citizens would benefit from their country's increased economic production. Similarly, GDP per capita is not a measure of personal income. GDP may increase while incomes for the majority of a country's citizens may even decrease or change disproportionally. For example, in the US from 1990 to 2006 the earnings (adjusted for inflation) of individual workers, in private industry and services, increased by less than 0.5% per year while GDP (adjusted for inflation)increased about 3.6% per year over the same period.
The major disadvantage is that it is not, strictly speaking, a measure of standard of living. GDP is intended to be a measure of particular types of economic activity within a country. Nothing about the definition of GDP suggests that it is necessarily a measure of standard of living. For instance, in an extreme example, a country which exported 100 per cent of its production and imported nothing would still have a high GDP, but a very poor standard of living.



That´s why Europeans, Canadians, New Zealanders, and Australians have the highest quality of life in the world.

Europeans have excellent mass transportation systems... and they save a chunk of money on transportation. In the U.S. you must spend a big chunk of your monthly income in car, tolls, gas, etc etc...car expenses.

Plus.... Europe, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand have universal healthcare systems...

Last edited by Eduardo983; 07-27-2009 at 06:13 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2009, 07:00 PM
 
Location: USA
526 posts, read 1,757,064 times
Reputation: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo983 View Post
USA is cheap for Europeans. Europe is expensive to U.S. Americans.

Europe is more expensive for the same products sold in the US. This has no bearing on gauging wealth. In fact, less American spending in Europe hurts Europe's economy and a weak dollar policy attracts foreign capital to purchase things in the US expediting the US recovery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo983 View Post
Why?
The dollar is getting weaker, as a consequence, U.S. Americans are becoming poorer. Just compare the minimum wages in Europe vs the U.S.A....

Minimum wages are not an accurate measure of calculating a country's economic prosperity.

Example: If you are making minimum wage and living at home rent/expense free. This is not so bad.

Example #2: You need to stop thinking in Gross. Net income is what counts. If the income is 1.5 times greater and the income tax is 2-3x as much. I am sure you will come to the conclusion that you have more disposable income in the US no matter which tax bracket you are in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo983 View Post
Why do I use the minimun wage as an indicator to make the comparison? because the worst case scenario for any citizen in any country is to make minimum wage... GDP per capita is not a measurement of the standard of living in an economy and people always try to compare economies by using GDP per capita instead of minimum wages or other indicators. Wrong, wrong, wrong... that is why I use minimum wage...

Using GDP or Minimum wage exclusively are both incorrect but GDP per capita is a more accurate indicator. In truth, it is impossible to calculate because there are so many other factors. I would agree that Europeans have a higher quality of life because they can afford to work less and have more securities such as healthcare. BUT, Europeans fail to recognise that it is because the US provides them with national security which in turn allows much less capital from their GDP to be allocated for their own military defence budget. So you can say that we as Americans sacrifice our healthcare for ourselves to provide you with yours. How nice of us.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo983 View Post
Europeans have excellent mass transportation systems... and they save a chunk of money on transportation. In the U.S. you must spend a big chunk of your monthly income in car, tolls, gas, etc etc...car expenses.

Our cars are 30% less on average, our gas is 50% less, we don't have tolls in most of the country... we have "freeways". There are a lot of Americans that choose to have cars over buying real estate closer to their occupation. This is a choice they make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduardo983 View Post
Plus.... Europe, Australia, Canada, and New Zealand have universal healthcare systems...
I rather have an excellent healthcare system that I have to pay for than a universal one that rations health.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2009, 07:13 PM
 
Location: CA
3,467 posts, read 8,145,464 times
Reputation: 4841
Quote:
Originally Posted by jja100 View Post
I rather have an excellent healthcare system that I have to pay for than a universal one that rations health.
Nice that YOU can afford it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2009, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Houston
441 posts, read 1,327,555 times
Reputation: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jja100 View Post
If you can't then there is the Canadian paradise just a few miles north. But don't start complaining that you need immediate medical treatment and you have to wait 2-3 months to get it or maybe you are to old to qualify for it, or maybe it is too rare of a disease to be worthy to cover you for.
Why you feed us with Canada? Why don't you compare with some scandinavian countries or others in EU where you have top healthcare and it is available to everyone without the need of mortgage if you had pre-existing condition.

How come life expectancy or infant mortality is so good if healthcare is so horrible, hmm? We have illegals too, don't try this one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...mortality_rate
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2009, 11:29 AM
 
286 posts, read 1,400,723 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by jja100 View Post
For an economy that relies so much on tourism to supplement their GDP, you would think that the European Central Bank would support a weaker currency relative to the American dollar so that they can keep tourism high. Honestly, I think they have no idea what they are doing. The problem with the EU is that the bureaucrats that are running it are not economists, they are politicians.
Abslolutely not true, the ECB (european central bank) is totally independant, they don't recieve any kind of orders from the gvts.


Quote:
Any economist around the world would agree that maintaining the same interest rates over 15-27 European nations is not only foolish but detrimental.
As far as I know more the € is high and the dollar weak more you can have raw material at the cheapest price.... actually, for germany and france where industries are still important it makes sens....


Quote:
Therefore the EU was sold as a "free trade" and "borderless" uni-state to the people when in fact it is a union constructed much like the Soviet one.
hmmm I think you need to explain what, because being an european I have never been more free before...


Quote:
The only thing that is missing are the KGB.... oh wait, cough* Europols.

Actually, europol acts more like the FBI.

Quote:
My suggestion, wait until either the Euro forms an equilibrium with the dollar or its collapse before traveling.
collpase ? why ? have you seen the us economy ?


Quote:
It is definitely overpriced for what you get. My last vacation was before the Euro in 1999 and my dollar went very far. I spent $2000 for 3 weeks. Now it is more like $4500 without some meals.
It has little to do with € but more with the collapse of the $

Quote:
Ah, the expense of living in welfare states. Europe taxes food at 10% but it is VAT (value added tax), not sales tax. What does this mean to you the consumer?
for the consumer I don't know, but I look forward your explanation as for the reader it means or at least it seems you know little about this topic. First VAT is not an european taxe, each gvt has its own, and 10 % frankly... for example in France there is two rate : 5.5 for the vital food and 19.6 for the rest.

Quote:
Because VAT charges this tax at every stage of the production cycle of a particular good or service,
Wrong, absolutely wrong


Quote:
this means business' shell out the tax before it is even consumed by the consumer. If the consumer decides not to purchase the item or doesn't buy the item before it spoils (in the case of food), store owners have to charge more for all of their merchandise to cover for the lost goods.
it's not just wrong, it's totally stupid.


Quote:
This is another one of Europe's regressive taxes that secures government income at the expense of killing small business and consumer spending. The higher the sales/VAT tax, the more it hurts the poor... not the rich. Wait, I thought socialism was all about taxing the rich?

Well, I advice you to read a liitle bit more about something before posting stupid comments like this one.

Here is how it works : VAT

Quote:
The value added tax system is designed to address various problems associated with the conventional sales tax system. In sales tax, there is no provision for input tax credit, which means that the end consumer may pay tax on an input that has already been taxed previously. This is known as cascading and leads to increases consumer tax and price levels, which increases the rate of evasion and can be detrimental to economic growth.
The value added tax system deals with these problems quite efficiently. As VAT is imposed on value addition – at every single stage – there is no incidence of cascading. In this way, the final consumers bear the burden of paying value added tax. This system involves absolute transparency at every stage of taxation, thereby making the tax system quite comprehensible and simple.
Quote:
When you couple this VAT tax with the fact that the revenue is required to pay for healthcare you can see how expensive it can be for consumers.
another weird thing ! frankly, the europeans have to be completly daft !
again, read a little bit more about healthcare and taxation in europe before posting anything like this. BTW the americans don't pay anything for their healthcare ? Are you sure ?

Quote:
The net effect is that Europeans consume less than their American counterparts not only because the products that they are buying are more expensive but also because they have less disposable income at the end of every month because of their higher income taxes.
Wow ! good work ! so the net effect is that europeans consume less than their american counterpart... it is true, but the reason you cite is not the only one, tax is part of the problem we have to pay a lot of things such like healthcare and others taxes to sustain our economical model and our way of life (your know the CT for example), but you know when europeans pay taxes for their healthcare the american pay healthcare too what you consider as consumption in US is tax in Europe but the net effect on the wages remains the same, at least almost since in US healthcare is twice expensive than the ones in any european country. Furthermore the savings in europe is by far higher especially in countries such France, Germany or Belgium, the loans are less used, it means while the american spend their money thanks to loans in buying cars, houses etc... making the economy working they are in the same time in debts. The european model permit you to use loan but you cannot have a loan if you have got too much debts... for example it's hard to buy a second house when you didn't pay the first one, and it's impossible to use mortgage if you didn't pay your house... so just guess a second mortgage for the same house, this practice was happening in US some years ago, and I didn't hear Obama he would stop it.

But you know, the crisis has little to do with the system you are advocationg here


Quote:
Next, we come to currency. The Euro is valued much higher than the dollar because the Euro is only roughly 25% of the worlds circulating currency compared to the American dollar at 66%.
??? I'm sorry to tell you this but I think you're wrong, what you are talking about is called Reserve, maybe I'm wrong, but next time back up your claim with a link.


Quote:
More currency, less value per unit... simple Econ 101.
It's totally stupid each currency has got its own way, if today the value of the $ collapse it has nothing to do with what you say. Ten years ago, when euro didn't exist, the dollar was more important and there were more dollar but as far as I know the dollar was almighty and it's value per unit was by far higher...

Econ 101 not sure at all... or maybe you need to go futher.

Quote:
Couple this with dollar having substantially more debt than the Euro and you have an even stronger Euro. As the Euro ages it will incur more debt and create a more predictable equilibrium to the dollar, that is if it does not collapse first.
I just wonder where your economical skills come from... what kind of link are you able to make between age and debt ??????????

Quote:
For those that are in denial about state of the Euro... remember that the Euro is only backed by the good faith and support of its people.
It's backed by the biggest economy in the world called the european union... and 11 tonnes of gold reserve

Quote:
The US dollar on the other hand is backed partially in gold and mostly by its control of the world's oil and the fact that we get a free spread every time the rest of the world needs to purchase that oil with its own currency (oil is priced in dollars ).
you meant 8 tonnes of gold as for the control of oil reserve... LOL I don't think so. Firstly never heard of the OPEC ? what kind of control do you think you have on countries like Iran, Venezuela or brazil. You do even not control countries like saudi arabia or UAE. And what about Russia ? Norway ? since we are at it, let me tell you that the European union is a biggest exporter of oil than US and its economy depends less on it. As for the oil is priced in dollar, if I were you I'd begun to consider it could change one day, the dollar being less and less reliable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-28-2009, 09:08 PM
 
Location: USA
526 posts, read 1,757,064 times
Reputation: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
Abslolutely not true, the ECB (european central bank) is totally independant, they don't recieve any kind of orders from the gvts.
The bank's independence has notably come under intense criticism since the election of Nicolas Sarkozy as French President. Sarkozy has sought to make the ECB more susceptible to political influence, to extend its mandate to focus on growth and job creation, and has frequently criticised the bank's policies on interest rates. Concerns have also been raised over the Lisbon Treaty which, like the European Constitution, will make the ECB a formal institution of the EU.




Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
As far as I know more the € is high and the dollar weak more you can have raw material at the cheapest price.... actually, for germany and france where industries are still important it makes sens....
I don't know what you just said here. Maybe English is not your first language but I don't see how the value of a particular monetary unit has anything to do with the equalisation of interest rates over so many differing economies within Europe.




Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
hmmm I think you need to explain what, because being an european I have never been more free before...
Social freedom has nothing to do with economic freedom. Singapore, Hong Kong, and Australia have less social freedoms than the US but more free economies. Just like most if not all European countries have more social freedoms than the US but more restricted and "unfree" (for lack of a better word) economies.




Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
Actually, europol acts more like the FBI.
This is true. But the FBI is only concerned with the affairs of the US and Europol is concerned with the affairs of ALL its member states which is more inline with KGB. Europol is a "watered-down" version of the KGB as it does not commit any crimes against its people. What scares me as both an EU citizen and US citizen is that Europol is formally unaccountable for its actions to the European Parliament, as well as to MPs from EU member countries.


Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
collpase ? why ? have you seen the us economy ?
Yes, I currently live in the US. Despite how bad it is, there still is a constant waive of Europeans and peoples from Mexico and other 3rd world countries still trying to look for work here which tells me all I need to know about the state of the rest of the world's economy. If you live in Germany, Switzerland, or the Netherlands you most likely are doing fine. But all of the Eastern European countries and Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Greece are basically 3rd world countries being carried by the few. So, the economy of Germany may be superior than that of the US but the whole of the EU is suffering.


Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
It has little to do with € but more with the collapse of the $
This is 100% true. We are printing our way out of this recession and this in term hurts the rest of the world even more. Less tourism, less trade etc. The US is an absolute economy, it has every natural resource to sustain itself but we choose to trade to acquire a less expensive comparative advantage. Less trade with the rest of the world hurts the rest of the world more than the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
for the consumer I don't know, but I look forward your explanation as for the reader it means or at least it seems you know little about this topic. First VAT is not an european taxe, each gvt has its own, and 10 % frankly... for example in France there is two rate : 5.5 for the vital food and 19.6 for the rest.

Every EU country has the tax. The 10% is the Italian VAT on food. I wouldn't be surprised if the EU begins to equalise the VAT tax since they have already done it with interest rates.

Also, your statement has nothing to do with how the tax is collected which is the more important issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
Wrong, absolutely wrong
Nice counterargument!

Example

Consider the manufacture and sale of any item, which in this case we will call a widget.

[edit] Without any tax


[edit] With a North American (Canadian provincial and U.S. state) sales tax

With a 10% sales tax:
  • The manufacturer pays $1.00 for the raw materials, certifying it is not a final consumer.
  • The manufacturer charges the retailer $1.20, checking that the retailer is not a consumer, leaving the same profit of $0.20.
  • The retailer charges the consumer $1.65 ($1.50 + $1.50x10%) and pays the government $0.15, leaving the same profit of $0.30.
So the consumer has paid 10% ($0.15) extra, compared to the no taxation scheme, and the government has collected this amount in taxation. The retailers have not lost anything directly to the tax, and retailers have the extra paperwork to do so that they correctly pass on to the government the sales tax they collect. Suppliers and manufacturers have the administrative burden of supplying correct certifications, and checking that their customers (retailers) aren't consumers.

[edit] With a value added tax

With a 10% VAT:
  • The manufacturer pays $1.10 ($1 + $1x10%) for the raw materials, and the seller of the raw materials pays the government $0.10.
  • The manufacturer charges the retailer $1.32 ($1.20 + $1.20x10%) and pays the government $0.02 ($0.12 minus $0.10), leaving the same profit of $0.20.
  • The retailer charges the consumer $1.65 ($1.50 + $1.50x10%) and pays the government $0.03 ($0.15 minus $0.12), leaving the profit of $0.30 (1.65-1.32-.03).
So the consumer has paid 10% ($0.15) extra, compared to the no taxation scheme, and the government has collected this amount in taxation. The businesses have not lost anything directly to the tax. They do not need to request certifications from purchasers who are not end users, but they do have the extra accounting to do so that they correctly pass on to the government the difference between what they collect in VAT (output VAT, an 11th of their income) and what they spend in VAT (input VAT, an 11th of their expenditure).
Note that in each case the VAT paid is equal to 10% of the profit, or 'value added'.


The "value added tax" has been criticised as the burden of it relies on personal end-consumers of products and is therefore a regressive tax(the poor pay more, as a percentage of their income, than the rich).



Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
it's not just wrong, it's totally stupid.
Typically, when an individual resorts to disagreeing and criticising it as stupid it usually means they have no idea why it is wrong and no way of explaining why which discredits the individual and further empowers my argument.

Italian store owners have reported in the media that they have been overcharging the rest of their non-perishable goods simply to be profitable.




Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
Well, I advice you to read a liitle bit more about something before posting stupid comments like this one.
Your link on VAT doesn't explain how it is collected. Scroll down on Wikipedia and read the whole thing over again. VAT is superior to the sales tax in terms of transparency because it ensures that the Government gets its share instead of the people. The US uses the sales tax system because it provides goods and services to the consumer with less risk to the business owner. It also winds up providing those goods and services at a cheaper price so that it can be consumed more frequently. US conservative policy is all about limiting government and giving more control to the people. The countries of Europe do not believe in this philosophy. They believe that the people are too poor and too ignorant to take care of themselves therefore they need to do it for them in the form of high taxation and high transparency of that tax.




Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
another weird thing ! frankly, the europeans have to be completly daft !
again, read a little bit more about healthcare and taxation in europe before posting anything like this. BTW the americans don't pay anything for their healthcare ? Are you sure ?
In America, every state has a different system for conducting healthcare policy. California is much like Europe with many programs to help the people in return for the highest taxes in the union next to New Jersey. Could this be why CA is going bankrupt while Texas using conservative economic policies is still doing well in these hard times?

Secondly, that is correct. You do not need to pay for health insurance in America... it is optional. You can go straight to the doctor and pay in cash and get immediate service with the highest of quality if you have the money. It is actually much cheaper this way so long as you don't become terminally ill with cancer or heart disease than paying insurance premiums, deductibles, and co-pays. You probably don't know what I am talking about because you obviously don't know anything about the US to be criticising it.




Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
Wow ! good work ! so the net effect is that europeans consume less than their american counterpart... it is true, but the reason you cite is not the only one, tax is part of the problem we have to pay a lot of things such like healthcare and others taxes to sustain our economical model and our way of life (your know the CT for example), but you know when europeans pay taxes for their healthcare the american pay healthcare too what you consider as consumption in US is tax in Europe but the net effect on the wages remains the same, at least almost since in US healthcare is twice expensive than the ones in any european country. Furthermore the savings in europe is by far higher especially in countries such France, Germany or Belgium, the loans are less used, it means while the american spend their money thanks to loans in buying cars, houses etc... making the economy working they are in the same time in debts. The european model permit you to use loan but you cannot have a loan if you have got too much debts... for example it's hard to buy a second house when you didn't pay the first one, and it's impossible to use mortgage if you didn't pay your house... so just guess a second mortgage for the same house, this practice was happening in US some years ago, and I didn't hear Obama he would stop it.
Yes we consume more and many people over leverage themselves. The consequence is bankruptcy and the inability to buy further with damaged credit. I don't think I can ever explain to a fellow European about the US model. My father was a socialist for the longest time until after he came to America and became a die-hard capitalist. Europeans have no idea because most of them are just sitting around a coffee table regurgitating left wing media propaganda about how bad it is in America and what a horrible quality of life we have while they are waiting for their next welfare check. That is fine but the problem with Europe is when you are born poor, you stay poor until you die. The US is the only country where a poor person can become rich and a rich person can become poor. Europe is class based and always will be. The rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
But you know, the crisis has little to do with the system you are advocationg here
I am not advocating the system as being better or worse than Europe. It is different. I honestly believe that if you are already wealthy... Europe is way better to live. But if you are dirt poor and if you have ambitions, then it is not. Secondly, most Americans don't advocate capitalism for Europe and the rest of the world, why is it that Europeans want Americans to become socialist?



Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
??? I'm sorry to tell you this but I think you're wrong, what you are talking about is called Reserve, maybe I'm wrong, but next time back up your claim with a link.

Yes, I misspoke. I meant reserves. Here is the link for you.

Reserve currency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
It's totally stupid each currency has got its own way, if today the value of the $ collapse it has nothing to do with what you say. Ten years ago, when euro didn't exist, the dollar was more important and there were more dollar but as far as I know the dollar was almighty and it's value per unit was by far higher...
I don't know what you are trying to say here? That the dollar is less important than it used to be? That is true. The point I was making is that the world still has more than double of its cash reserves in US dollar over Euro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
I just wonder where your economical skills come from... what kind of link are you able to make between age and debt ??????????
My skills come from my education, success, and net worth. The older a currency becomes, it is only natural that debt increases. This doesn't necessarily mean that the oldest currency has the most debt but rather it typically has more debt than new currencies. For example, if the US formed an American Union with Canada and Mexico and named it the "Amero" which people have talked about doing... the Amero would be valued higher than the Euro because the US debt would be expunged.


Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
It's backed by the biggest economy in the world called the european union... and 11 tonnes of gold reserve
Comparing 27 grouped economies to the one US is silly. The US effectively controls a larger amount of gold than the Eurozone since the IMF cannot sell its gold without United States Congressional approval.


Quote:
Originally Posted by caseras View Post
Firstly never heard of the OPEC ? what kind of control do you think you have on countries like Iran, Venezuela or brazil. You do even not control countries like saudi arabia or UAE. And what about Russia ? Norway ?
As I was analysing the market, I noticed that as soon as the recession became apparent, oil prices just all of a sudden dropped in half to spurr US economic growth recovery. You think that was a coincidence? Or maybe we have more control over OPEC than you might think.

Secondly, contrary to popular belief. The US doesn't buy most of its oil from the middle east. 60% of the oil we buy is from Canada and Mexico alone which are not OPEC countries.

Final note, if you are going to source all of your arguments through Wikipedia, at least paste the other half which I did for you here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-29-2009, 10:27 AM
 
4,282 posts, read 15,750,941 times
Reputation: 4000
Quote:
The US is an absolute economy, it has every natural resource to sustain itself but we choose to trade to acquire a less expensive comparative advantage

Bit of a conflict with this:


Quote:
The US doesn't buy most of its oil from the middle east. 60% of the oil we buy is from Canada and Mexico alone which are not OPEC countries.

Unless, of course, the US merely chooses to buy its oil from foreign sources to maintain a competetive advantage.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Europe

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:35 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top