Question About Post-Workout Shake (losing fat, gaining, burn, workouts)

[McBain II]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

What liquid ( cow milk, goat millk, fruit juice, soy milk, almond milk, hemp milk, or just purified water ) do you mix the whey protein into, and why do you use that liquid specifically?

I use Hood Calorie Countdown Dairy Beverage. Works well with my low carb diet.

Calorie Countdown

[DennyCrane]

Originally Posted by TrainerJ

That research is still talking about a post workout shake containing a good amount of simple sugars. The advice that Bosco55David is giving you is good advice. You want a post workout shake that will not trigger the rapid insulin response but will still halt the catabolic state that your muscle are going into. So, a mix of whey protein and casein is a good idea for a post workout shake. The whey protein will be digested fast enough to halt the catabolism, without causing the insulin spike, and the casein will be digested slow enough that it will supply your muscle with a steady stream of amino acids for the next couple of hours.

Remember, for optimal fat loss you have to keep your metabolism going. So, if you're not eating your 5-6 meals a day focus on that first and you may not even need a post workout shake if the meals are timed correctly.

The point I'm trying to make is that there have been no studies showing the impact of a post-workout shake when your goal is fat loss. When your goal is gaining muscle, the case for a post-workout shake has been made. What I'm looking for is evidence that when you're training for weight loss, NOT having that post workout will cause you to lose muscle. In the past, when I was trying to lose fat, I never had a post-workout shake. I'd just do my workout, shower, and then have dinner. The dinner would consist of lean protein and slow-digesting carbs and I would have it within an hour of finishing my workout. In the past, following this routine enabled me to preserve muscle mass. I had a new loss of only 1 pound after several months. For all the talk about critical it is to protein in your system ASAP, I wonder if that window of opportunity is really as narrow as people make it out to be. The trainer in the excerpt I posted above said that his clients' fat loss suffered as a result of having the shake.

Suppose I drop the simple sugar from my shake and just have whey or whey mixed with milk. That'll get protein in my system without creating an insulin spike. But since the amino acids will be absorbed at a slower rate, then why bother since I'll be eating dinner in less than an hour anyway? I guess I can't really buy into the muscle-loss paranoia and would rather avoid doing something that could potentially slow the rate of fat loss.

[McBain II]

Originally Posted by DennyCrane

The point I'm trying to make is that there have been no studies showing the impact of a post-workout shake when your goal is fat loss.

How hard have you looked? Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

When your goal is gaining muscle, the case for a post-workout shake has been made. What I'm looking for is evidence that when you're training for weight loss, NOT having that post workout will cause you to lose muscle.

Why do you need scientific evidence for something that is very well known for decades now?

The trainer in the excerpt I posted above said that his clients' fat loss suffered as a result of having the shake.

I'm dropping between 5 and 7lbs a week with a protein shake and creatine drink 30mins before and immediately after my workouts. Can't argue with results.

Suppose I drop the simple sugar from my shake and just have whey or whey mixed with milk. That'll get protein in my system without creating an insulin spike. But since the amino acids will be absorbed at a slower rate, then why bother since I'll be eating dinner in less than an hour anyway?

Just like I and TrainerJ have said, whey protein absorbs pretty quickly even on it's own.

I guess I can't really buy into the muscle-loss paranoia and would rather avoid doing something that could potentially slow the rate of fat loss.

Read less, lift more.

Seriously, the amount of calories in a pure whey protein shake are very minimal and a good portion of them will be burned off just digesting the protein. There is no need to worry about that small of an amount.

[DennyCrane]

Originally Posted by Bosco55David

How hard have you looked? Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

This isn't just my opinion. This is the shared by trainers I've spoken with as well as experts who've written on the subject. They all say the same thing, that the studies performed were all done on people trying to gain muscle, not on people trying to lose fat.

Why do you need scientific evidence for something that is very well known for decades now?

But it's not well known. You still haven't provided a single reference. If all you have is anecdotal evidence, that's not insufficient.

I'm dropping between 5 and 7lbs a week with a protein shake and creatine drink 30mins before and immediately after my workouts. Can't argue with results.

Are you honestly losing 5-7 pounds of just fat per week? I find that hard to believe, unless you're someone who's severely overweight. For most people, the body cannot metabolize fat at such a rate. And BTW, you only cite your own results. But the trainer I listed above summarizes the results of all his clients.

Just like I and TrainerJ have said, whey protein absorbs pretty quickly even on it's own.

Actually, you're contradicting yourself now. People mix milk with whey in order to slow down protein absorption, which was stated above.

Read less, lift more.

Thanks for the smarta$$ answer. I make plenty of time for workouts.

Seriously, the amount of calories in a pure whey protein shake are very minimal and a good portion of them will be burned off just digesting the protein. There is no need to worry about that small of an amount.

It's not about the extra calories and you're absolutely wrong when you claim that a good portion of that protein will be burned off during digestion. You obviously don't understand how the thermic effect of food works. Whey is in powder form and therefore doesn't require additional effort to digest it.

[McBain II]

Originally Posted by DennyCrane

This isn't just my opinion. This is the shared by trainers I've spoken with as well as experts who've written on the subject. They all say the same thing, that the studies performed were all done on people trying to gain muscle, not on people trying to lose fat.

You might want to find some better trainers then. I've NEVER heard any legit trainer spout that advice while the ones I've personally spoken to have agreed with me.

But it's not well known. You still haven't provided a single reference. If all you have is anecdotal evidence, that's not insufficient.

Do you need evidence that the sky is blue as well? Seriously, I don't know why you feel the need to have some long, drawn out, scientific explanation of this when the facts are very simple: If you don't take in protein right after your workout, your body is going to start breaking down muscle for energy.

You are not going to hurt your weight loss with a basic whey protein shake post workout.

Are you honestly losing 5-7 pounds of just fat per week? I find that hard to believe, unless you're someone who's severely overweight. For most people, the body cannot metabolize fat at such a rate. And BTW, you only cite your own results.

Seeing as how I've been able to maintain all my muscle (and actually gain some) then the answer is yes. A very small amount of that might be water weight, but most of it is fat.

I'm 6'0 and around 285 when I started this diet, with a decent core from my football days. The low carb diet I'm on has achieved similar results from many people. I've got a weigh in tomorrow and I expect to be in the 240's.

Actually, you're contradicting yourself now. People mix milk with whey in order to slow down protein absorption, which was stated above.

How did you come to that conclusion? I see no contradiction in what I said.

Thanks for the smarta$$ answer. I make plenty of time for workouts.

It's an honest statement. You're trying to make this out to be rocket science when it's not. I don't know about you, but I couldn't care less what the scientific explanation is for my results, all I care about is that I'm losing the weight I want and/or adding strength.

It's not about the extra calories

Originally Posted by DennyCrane

I don't want to be taking in extra calories unnecessarily.

And who is contradicting themselves here?

and you're absolutely wrong when you claim that a good portion of that protein will be burned off during digestion.

I didn't say the protein would be burned off, I said that a good portion of the calories in the protein would essentially be burned off by your body digesting the protein.

Whey is in powder form and therefore doesn't require additional effort to digest it.

I never said it did. See above.

[DennyCrane]

Originally Posted by Bosco55David

You might want to find some better trainers then. I've NEVER heard any legit trainer spout that advice while the ones I've personally spoken to have agreed with me.

Maybe you're not talking to right trainers. I've talked to plenty both at the gym and online.

Do you need evidence that the sky is blue as well? Seriously, I don't know why you feel the need to have some long, drawn out, scientific explanation of this when the facts are very simple: If you don't take in protein right after your workout, your body is going to start breaking down muscle for energy.

I'm not looking for a long scientific explanation. But so far, you've repeating this statement above and have yet to back it up. If it's such commonly accepted fact, then why is it so hard for you to provide one single reference? BTW, I understand that protein is critical after working out. What I'm trying to clear up is HOW SOON after your workout do you need that protein.

You are not going to hurt your weight loss with a basic whey protein shake post workout.

That's your opinion. Like I said above, the trainers I've talked to have all said their clients' fat loss suffered when they drank shakes immediately after lifting weights.

Seeing as how I've been able to maintain all my muscle (and actually gain some) then the answer is yes. A very small amount of that might be water weight, but most of it is fat.

I'm 6'0 and around 285 when I started this diet, with a decent core from my football days. The low carb diet I'm on has achieved similar results from many people. I've got a weigh in tomorrow and I expect to be in the 240's.

Now it makes sense. For someone as heavy as you, such large weekly fat losses are possible. But for most people who are only trying to shed the last 10-15 pounds of fat, 5-7 pounds of fat per week is very unlikely. Most can only do 1-2 pounds per week without losing muscle. Yours is an extreme case and should not be held up as typical of what people can expect.

It's an honest statement. You're trying to make this out to be rocket science when it's not. I don't know about you, but I couldn't care less what the scientific explanation is for my results, all I care about is that I'm losing the weight I want and/or adding strength.

Well, I have higher goals. I'm trying get really, REALLY lean again. It's sad that people do things and don't care about the science behind it. Imagine how much time they've probably wasted.

I didn't say the protein would be burned off, I said that a good portion of the calories in the protein would essentially be burned off by your body digesting the protein.

You obviously don't understand how the thermic effect works. The protein has already been predigested. How can the body burn calories from that protein if it's already been digested?

[LaoTzuMindFu]

Denny,

I fall in the camp of still taking a post workout protein shake even when looking to lose weight (aka Cutting). Protein shakes are not high in calories - the Muscle Tech Nitro Tech I am currently taking has 110 calories per serving.

I take it because the protein will continue to help your muscles grow while cutting instead of having muscle degradation while on the low cal high cardio training program.

Talk to 50 trainers and you may get 40-50 different answers, but for me, what has worked wonders is keeping up with two protein shakes per day - one in the morning and one immediately after workout. Whats really going to make you lose the fat is your diet (caloric intake and food choices) and your cardio routine.

[CosmicWizard]

DaBeez wrote:

Talk to 50 trainers and you may get 40-50 different answers, but for me, what has worked wonders is keeping up with two protein shakes per day - one in the morning and one immediately after workout.

Ain't it the truth! Consult with the trainers, take their recommendations with a grain of salt, experiment with the recommendations that make sense, throw out the ones that don't work in actual practice, and keep doing the ones that pan out in actual practice. Better yet, learn to let your body be your guide, and do what works for you ( like your protein shake routine. Sounds like a winner! ). Trust your own experience and leave the experts in the dust.

[LaoTzuMindFu]

Thing is, 30 of those trainers may very well know exactly what they are talking about and 30 of the answers could very well work. I am not knocking the trainers out there because most of my knowledge was passed on to me by trainers. The problem is that too many people hear what their trainers say, but then opt for different (i.e., easier) methods recommended by someone less informed

[CosmicWizard]

I'm not knocking the trainere either. I'm saying to take what they have to offer if it makes sense, try it out, then keep doing what works.....and go on from there. No one knows your own body as well as you do. When my experience differs from what the trainers are preaching ( and that happens ), I've learned to trust my own experience.