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We've been in Flag for 6 months now, renting. Our 3 br/2 ba house outside the city runs $1400/month plus abt $150-200 for utilities. It is nice, but nothing special. It does have a fab view of the SF peaks and is near hiking. I am a nurse, and we get by, but there isn't much left over to save up to buy. My kids are in middle school and I find the school system to be better than the last school they attended, but not great. The schools seem fixated on dress code, tardiness, and testing with much less emphasis on learning or reaching out to students.
Socially, the town is a mixed bag. Have met very superficially friendly folks, but no real friends. There is a big emphasis on how long you have lived here and the answer you give seems to put you in one caste or another.
The town seems pretty taken with itself. The old guard maintains that everything here is just fine, when its obvious that there are huge economic and social issues. The streets are in terrible shape, and snow removal is hit and miss. The town perceives itself as environmentally friendly, but sidewalks are not cleared, forcing pedestrians into the streets, which aren't cleared all that well. There are a lot of conflicting images here. That said, I do like Flagstaff and plan to stay, even if it means renting. Agree with prior posters' suggestions to do a cost comparison prior to moving here.
That's pretty hilarious, and true. I don't really get it though. If you want to live in a western mountain town there are so many better choices than Flagstaff.
re weather
we've had 5 ft of snow fall since beginning of January- we definately have 4 seasons. Winter varies- this year lots of precip and cold temps.
re: above comment on time lived in Flagstaff being a caste system . Here is why - this town is so transient that many of us who have been here for 10+ years won't really bother to engage newbies as friends since "we know" they will be gone before too long. I am this way, though I hate to be, it is a lesson hard learned, over and over. If someone I am befriending doesn't appear fully committed to FLG, then I don't bother because it takes dedication and perseverance to make it here.
It's so expensive! How do the people make it? Enquiring minds want to know! And, a friend of my husband's compared Flagstaff to Missoula Montana! Can you believe it?! Missoula! I was there in Missoula and I can't see any resemblance at all! Missoula is absolutely gorgeous, that I laughed my a$$ off at the comparison! There isn't any! I agree with the other poster about there being better mountain towns than Flagstaff! Hello! Idaho, Montana, Colorado............Flagstaff?
I haven't received any job offers after 6 months of living in Flagstaff. Most prospective employers do not even have the courtesy to return phone calls. I know other transplants here who also couldn't find a job anywhere from 2 to 6 months after arrival. That said, I am considering starting my own business, or moving to Boulder, Colorado, as several suggested above.
The real problem is the Flagstaff City Council. They are corrupt in many ways. For reasons that nobody living here can comprehend, they do not seem to allow new businesses or companies to come in. We don't have a Costco, Smiths Foods, Circuit City, Good Guys, Frys Electronics, Sports Authority, Rite Aid, REI, Performance Cycles, Sportsman Warehouse, or even a Super Wallmart. Food prices are through the roof because the grocery chains don't have to compete with a Costco or Super Wallmart. Boulder and Santa Fe, NM have all these stores and have a lower cost of living than Flagstaff.
When I lived in Albuquerque, there were 17 Super Wallmarts and the leading grocery chain, Smiths foods, kept its prices low in order to compete. From Flagstaff, you have to drive 60 miles to Cottonwood or Winslow for a Super Wallmart. Recently, I paid $300 for new tires at the Super Wallmart in Winslow. It would have cost $500 here in Flagstaff for the same tires at tire stores, because we don't have a Super Wallmart. Lots of people stock up at the Winslow and Cottonwood Super Wallmarts if they have good gas mileage. Who wants to pay $5 for a loaf of whole grain bread, or $3 / pound for ground beef?
Earlier this year, the citizens finally revolted and through out the corrupt Mayor in a landslide, and elected a liberal African American woman to the City Council. I hope the new mayor and council will promote economic growth. However, I am not that hopeful, based on previous trends. The City doesn't allow construction of enough affordable housing. They don't understand that they need to revitalize the downtown in order to encourage entrepreneurs to move here. They have an elitist idea that all the pine trees need to be saved for conservation purposes, despite the fact that they are a major fire hazard. They're putting pine trees over the needs of people. That's NOT liberal, in the sense of helping poor people. Yes, 65% of Coconino County residents voted for Obama, however, liberalism means building affordable housing, and making sure that your population has cheap food (i.e. Costco, Super Wallmart). People here want the land use restrictions removed, and they want a Super Wallmart for cheaper food. The City Council and Forest Service refuse to correct the housing shortage. One report stated that there are 600 homeless NAU (Northern Arizona University) students.
The council has also never raised the city's minimum wage, to mitigate the very high cost of living and high taxes. Compare this to Santa Fe, NM where the minimum wage is $9.50/hour. The sales tax is 8.5% and the restaurant/bar tax is approaching 13%; I kid you not. Although the Chamber of Commerce erroneously claims that the unemployment is about 5%, in my estimation it's at least ten times that, counting all the students, homeless people, and people here seasonally who want jobs. Many people here are displaced from larger cities because of firings or resignations. I resigned in Las Vegas, NV.
And, the quality and availability of medical care here is horrible. If you have a serious illness, such as a cardiac, neurological, or psychiatric disorder, don't move here and expect immediate care...there are long waiting lists. You'll have to drive 120 miles to Phoenix, 240 to Vegas, or 360 to Albuquerque before your first appointment with a specialist in Flagstaff. If you try to get state health insurance, they don't even allow applicants to own cars.
And, there are personality issues here, too. Arizonans prefer to hire other Arizonans. I've heard this from others. If you move to Flagstaff from Phoenix, you'll get hired. However, if you're outspoken from Seattle, Chicago, or New York, you're not appreciated here. Folks in Arizona are very taciturn and unwelcoming to their neighbors. My friends here are transplants from Illinois and Michigan. I met a lady from Manhattan who said she was constantly made fun of due to her New York accent in of all places Sedona. All of this sort of nonsense is indicative of people who score very high on the "consciencious personality type," and very low on the "open to experience personality type." This is represented in both the Deep South and the American Southwest, see the US Personality Maps in the Wall Street Journal from Sept 24, 2008 at: The United States of Mind - WSJ.com
However, despite these economic nightmares, northern Arizona certainly is a beautiful place to live, and the FUTS (Flagstaff Urban Trail System) is incredible. NAU is a great University, I wish I had attended it instead of the congested and corrupted University of Washington in Seattle. Flagstaff is a great town for college students, especially if they are into non-competitive sports such as bicycling. People in Flagstaff are well educated, politically progressive, interested in the environment and outdoor recreation, and perceptive of the economic problems within their own city. They want change, but the system is so corrupt that change seems to be a perpetual dream. If you move here, try to have a job lined up in advance, as several have suggested here, otherwise, be prepared to be paid the state minimum wage serving tourists in t-shirts. Will I stay? I doubt it. I've waited for the national elections and stock market to settle down. My only hope here after six months is as an entrepreneur in the *communications* field (yes, I know, my first message on city-data.com was too long, and the paragraph returns may or may not work. I finally logged in after years of reading.).
Tom, you hit the nail right on the head. However, about Smith's Foods, we used to ahve one, it is now Fry's, they are owned by the same company, the same one that owns Fred Meyer;s as well, as a NW transplant, you will recognize that one.
I moved back to Flag in April with my family. My mother was born here, I have quite a few distant relatives in the area, so I don't feel ike an outsider although I lived away from Flag for about 7 years before coming back. But I am young, I have that option, my wife is from the NW and she wanted to go there for awhile. We decided that Flag was home though and we wanted to raise our kids here. Boy do things change in 7 years. This is not the same town I left. The only reason I am employed is because I have a good friend that owns a business here. The arrangement was suppsoed to be temporary until I found another job or began grad school at NAU. I found that even with assistance and a assisntantship lined up at NAU there was no way we could afford Flag if I was in school even with my wife working full-time. As far as jobs go, even as a college educated well-rounded individual I am still working for my friend 7 months later. I have but out so many apps and resumes I lost count, but have only had one interview. Thank god for the job I have now. The reality, however, is that I make about $10K/year less tahn I'm worth with my education and the work I am doing, smae applies to my wife. Affordable housing is a non-existent joke, and I swear I see more people packing up to leave these days than moving in, and working in Property Management confirms that view, broken leases are on the rise
What it all boils down to is this isn't home ofr me anymore I guess. I am very sad about it, but while the city tries to spruce up downtown and the roads into and out of tourist areas, the rest of the place is falling apart. I live in a neighborhood that 7 years ago was a nice place, but now is becoming Sunnyside East (sorry if you don't understand the Sunnyside reference). After my lease is up, my family and I are on the move again, and hopefully in a few years I can visit Flagstaff and see some changes for the better. I wish nothing but success to this town and those who inhabit it, I'm not one of those bitter people, I just know the facts for me and my family. If you're making it here though, more power to you. I've had ties to Flagstaff my whole life, and I realy do not want to see this palce go under or become Aspen SW
I haven't received any job offers after 6 months of living in Flagstaff. Most prospective employers do not even have the courtesy to return phone calls. I know other transplants here who also couldn't find a job anywhere from 2 to 6 months after arrival.
[... blah, blah, blah ... ]
Jeez Louise! Such an in-depth analysis of all the problems in Flagstaff, by a person that nobody wants to hire, and that nobody likes.
I mean that's what you're saying, isn't it? This business about employers not returning phone calls -- welcome to the world, fella! It's like that everywhere. Here you are talking about economics, and what's the first rule of economics? Supply and demand! If you can't get hired, it means YOU are not in demand. And whose fault is that? It's yours!
And all these generalizations about "personality issues" is yet more self-serving bunk. You show up in a town with no career and no job prospects with an attitude that the town owes you something, and then wonder why people shun you. Look inward, my friend.
As to the rest of your economic analysis, who cares? If you actually had a career, you wouldn't be worrying about the price of a loaf of bread or the percentage of meal-tax in a restaurant. Do you honestly feel you are qualified to critique the city government when you can't even feed yourself? Incredible.
Please. Stop blaming the world for your problems, and start working on yourself.
I haven't received any job offers after 6 months of living in Flagstaff. Most prospective employers do not even have the courtesy to return phone calls. I know other transplants here who also couldn't find a job anywhere from 2 to 6 months after arrival. That said, I am considering starting my own business, or moving to Boulder, Colorado, as several suggested above.
The real problem is the Flagstaff City Council. They are corrupt in many ways. For reasons that nobody living here can comprehend, they do not seem to allow new businesses or companies to come in. We don't have a Costco, Smiths Foods, Circuit City, Good Guys, Frys Electronics, Sports Authority, Rite Aid, REI, Performance Cycles, Sportsman Warehouse, or even a Super Wallmart. Food prices are through the roof because the grocery chains don't have to compete with a Costco or Super Wallmart. Boulder and Santa Fe, NM have all these stores and have a lower cost of living than Flagstaff.
When I lived in Albuquerque, there were 17 Super Wallmarts and the leading grocery chain, Smiths foods, kept its prices low in order to compete. From Flagstaff, you have to drive 60 miles to Cottonwood or Winslow for a Super Wallmart. Recently, I paid $300 for new tires at the Super Wallmart in Winslow. It would have cost $500 here in Flagstaff for the same tires at tire stores, because we don't have a Super Wallmart. Lots of people stock up at the Winslow and Cottonwood Super Wallmarts if they have good gas mileage. Who wants to pay $5 for a loaf of whole grain bread, or $3 / pound for ground beef?
Earlier this year, the citizens finally revolted and through out the corrupt Mayor in a landslide, and elected a liberal African American woman to the City Council. I hope the new mayor and council will promote economic growth. However, I am not that hopeful, based on previous trends. The City doesn't allow construction of enough affordable housing. They don't understand that they need to revitalize the downtown in order to encourage entrepreneurs to move here. They have an elitist idea that all the pine trees need to be saved for conservation purposes, despite the fact that they are a major fire hazard. They're putting pine trees over the needs of people. That's NOT liberal, in the sense of helping poor people. Yes, 65% of Coconino County residents voted for Obama, however, liberalism means building affordable housing, and making sure that your population has cheap food (i.e. Costco, Super Wallmart). People here want the land use restrictions removed, and they want a Super Wallmart for cheaper food. The City Council and Forest Service refuse to correct the housing shortage. One report stated that there are 600 homeless NAU (Northern Arizona University) students.
The council has also never raised the city's minimum wage, to mitigate the very high cost of living and high taxes. Compare this to Santa Fe, NM where the minimum wage is $9.50/hour. The sales tax is 8.5% and the restaurant/bar tax is approaching 13%; I kid you not. Although the Chamber of Commerce erroneously claims that the unemployment is about 5%, in my estimation it's at least ten times that, counting all the students, homeless people, and people here seasonally who want jobs. Many people here are displaced from larger cities because of firings or resignations. I resigned in Las Vegas, NV.
And, the quality and availability of medical care here is horrible. If you have a serious illness, such as a cardiac, neurological, or psychiatric disorder, don't move here and expect immediate care...there are long waiting lists. You'll have to drive 120 miles to Phoenix, 240 to Vegas, or 360 to Albuquerque before your first appointment with a specialist in Flagstaff. If you try to get state health insurance, they don't even allow applicants to own cars.
And, there are personality issues here, too. Arizonans prefer to hire other Arizonans. I've heard this from others. If you move to Flagstaff from Phoenix, you'll get hired. However, if you're outspoken from Seattle, Chicago, or New York, you're not appreciated here. Folks in Arizona are very taciturn and unwelcoming to their neighbors. My friends here are transplants from Illinois and Michigan. I met a lady from Manhattan who said she was constantly made fun of due to her New York accent in of all places Sedona. All of this sort of nonsense is indicative of people who score very high on the "consciencious personality type," and very low on the "open to experience personality type." This is represented in both the Deep South and the American Southwest, see the US Personality Maps in the Wall Street Journal from Sept 24, 2008 at: The United States of Mind - WSJ.com
However, despite these economic nightmares, northern Arizona certainly is a beautiful place to live, and the FUTS (Flagstaff Urban Trail System) is incredible. NAU is a great University, I wish I had attended it instead of the congested and corrupted University of Washington in Seattle. Flagstaff is a great town for college students, especially if they are into non-competitive sports such as bicycling. People in Flagstaff are well educated, politically progressive, interested in the environment and outdoor recreation, and perceptive of the economic problems within their own city. They want change, but the system is so corrupt that change seems to be a perpetual dream. If you move here, try to have a job lined up in advance, as several have suggested here, otherwise, be prepared to be paid the state minimum wage serving tourists in t-shirts. Will I stay? I doubt it. I've waited for the national elections and stock market to settle down. My only hope here after six months is as an entrepreneur in the *communications* field (yes, I know, my first message on city-data.com was too long, and the paragraph returns may or may not work. I finally logged in after years of reading.).
And the irony is that Prescott has damn near everything that Flag has to offer outside of no skiing that I am aware coupled with much milder winters.
Too: Prescott has a Costco, Best Buy, etc. For the record: the only cities here in Az that still have Smiths are all in Mohave County. The Frys grocery stores used to be Smiths/Smittys.
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Flagstaff
And, a friend of my husband's compared Flagstaff to Missoula Montana! Can you believe it?! Missoula! 
I was there in Missoula and I can't see any resemblance at all! Missoula is absolutely gorgeous, that I laughed my a$$ off at the comparison!
There isn't any! I agree with the other poster about there being better mountain towns than Flagstaff! Hello! Idaho, Montana, Colorado............Flagstaff?
