[simetime]

Originally Posted by crazynip

Florida judge: Cuts to state employees' pay violated contract - St. Petersburg Times

Great news!

I think that you got his name backwards

[Jo48]

Originally Posted by MovedfromFL

The FRS is one of the absolute best-funded sytems in the US right now. We were nowhere near "in trouble".

Regarding leaving employment before you are vested: As I understand it, the plan MUST refund the employee's contributions. My husband used to teach in Georgia and when we moved away, he received a refund of his entire contribution from the 4 years. (I'm not sure on this, but it might also include interest earned as well)

In the Florida plan, we have already switched to the investment plan. That's the only way for an employee to position himself to 'cash out' his vested amount. We will definately be leaving FL at some point soon. Although my husband is vested, the payout after 10 years of service would be paltry amount, starting in about 20 years (think about a $40 a month pension, paid 20 years from now. We'd be lucky to buy a pack of gum.) So we chose to move to the investment plan, and then cash it out. $9,000 now is worth a LOT more than the pension stream in 20 years.

As I understand it, the 3% that is now being taken out of his check would also be refunded when we move away. (just like in GA). The plan has to refund YOUR contributions if you terminate employment.

THIS mess WILL serve to destabilize the pension plan. Scott has made it worse, not better, with this change.

He also raised the retirement age of vesting for new employees. Surprised he didn't try to make THAT retroactive too. "At risk" occupations (police, etc.) is now 35 years or 60 years old. All others it is 35 years or 67 years old, which is older than SS. Think of it this way, a person would have to join the force at 20 years old in order to be able to retire at the current 55 years old. What this is doing is forcing people to work longer and longer to get any retirement benefits. By those this, it is also keeping YOUNGER PEOPLE out of jobs. 60 year old cops and firefighters????? Besides that, a young man or woman couldn't possibly have gotten a higher education before becoming a police officer. Maybe they WANT that?????

From what I heard, Scott is saying that those 3% monies cannot be refunded because they have already SPENT IT. Even if you QUIT? This man needs to be in JAIL, not the Governor's office. I guess that should be a lesson. Don't elect someone involved in FRAUD!!!!!!

[sware2cod]

Originally Posted by Jo48

From what I heard, Scott is saying that those 3% monies cannot be refunded because they have already SPENT IT.

He spent it by giving corporations a new tax cut.

His new motto should be:
"Take from the people and give to corporations. Scr__ the citizens of FL, I am here to represent big business."

[vaughanwilliams]

Originally Posted by Sunny-Days-in-Florida

Why would I go back to Ohio? I have as much right if not more to be here then you do.

What prompts you to think you have more right to live in Florida than someone else?

This ought to be good.

[MovedfromFL]

It's doesn't matter if the 3% has been spent by Florida. If the court says "give it back" then FL will have to "find" the money and give it back. (of course, that means further cuts to education to claw back the money!)

You can't change the rules of a pension program just because you mismanaged the money. WHEN my husband quits (or gets laid off) from his job, we will expect HIS contributions back, just like it works in every single other state.

By the way, Gov. Christie also made a lot of changes to the pension in NJ. My SIL teaches up there.

When you eliminate the COLA, you pretty much render the entire thing worthless. It's like collecting SS with no COLA ever. Your purchasing power is eroded every single day by inflation. The recent inflation numbers are 3.9%. That's a MASSIVE hit to the purchasing power of all of us, public or private.

[sammbriggs]

Originally Posted by MovedfromFL

This is a double-edged sword at this point. If the courts overturn this issue, then the 3% would have to be taken out of the FL General Fund and returned to workers. Of course, the money is already spent, so it would have to be carved out of the 2012 budget in the next legislative session.

We already know that sales tax revenues in FL are coming in well under projections. This will force lawmakers to make big cuts again in the next session.

So in the case of someone like my husband who is a public school teacher, he might get his 3% contributions refunded, BUT that money will be carved out of next year's eduction budget, on top of cuts already baked in by our declining sales tax revenues.

So here's your 3% back, but by the way, your job has been cut. We are already talking about going to a 4-day school week in Lake County b/c we cannot afford to keep the lights on.

Second, a pension is basically worthless without any kind of COLA (cost of living increase). It's like getting Social Security and never getting a cola increase.

If inflation runs around 3%, then your purchasing power is cut in HALF in 24 years. (less time if inflation is higher, which it has averaged since the late 1970's.) So if you get a $20,000 pension in year 1, and the same $20,000 pension in year 20, by year 20, your purchasing power is only equal to around $10,000!

My husband just moved his FL teacher pension to the investment plan so that he can get access to it if his employment is terminated. It's scary out there, and since we moved back to FL, he will be on annual contract forever. In fact, we just sold our house yesterday so that we can be ready to leave FL if we need to.

So even though state workers would certainly love to see that money back in their take home pay, it's a double edged sword because the state did NOT hold that money aside pending the court review. That pool of money would have to be "found" again (ie carved out of education or Medicaid spending!)

Also, one of Scott's top priorities for the next session is to claw back the pension 'savings' that local governments received. The rate was lowered but now Scott wants school districts to cough up that money, a year after it was spent!!

If these proposals come through, it will be like a bomb went off in school district (and local gov't) budgets all over the state. Right now, school budgets are projecting millions in shortfalls again for the next year. Things are just really teetering on the edge of disaster here.

thank you for posting such a sensible post. most people think that it's easy to be governor in the worst recession since the depression. most people might not like scott's unwillingness to tax, but as things stand, i don't think florida's attracting much wealth these days. start messing with the code and some of the payers might move away and that will leave us worse off. damned if do, damned if you don't

[sammbriggs]

Originally Posted by Jo48

I read all 14 pages of the original Complaint. The Plaintiffs pleaded that all monies collected prior to a decision be placed in a special, and untouchable, fund. The judge denied this Everyone KNEW that this money would be spent before a decision was rendered. I suppose Scott and the legislature thought the judge would rule in their favor? You cannot amend a valid contract without the consent of BOTH parties to it. Can you imagine the chaos it would create in business if one party could change their contracts any time they wanted???

While the state can offer NEW employees one year contracts without tenure and a mandatory 3% contributory retirement plan, it cannot require this for current employees under old contracts.

I am sure the state's attornies knew what the outcome of this decision would be.

this is precisely why tenure and long term govt contracts are a crock. they offer all sorts of goodies, get buildings, roads and bridges named after them and they leave it for future generations to hold the bag. voters today must pay for the promises they make. they mustn't make promises for future generations to pay!

[sammbriggs]

Originally Posted by HeartofFlorida

LOL! Start in the Legislative Branch where ironically Tricky Ricky won't release their salaries to the public. I wonder why.... No one talks about the cost of living increases they receive every year. No one talks about the year-end bonus they receive every year. But that's okay. He who controls the money controls how much NOT to give everyone else.

i would agree with this! both at the state and federal level. i don't even think the president should be paid. i often wonder, does the president even carry a wallet. if so, for what?

[crazynip]

Originally Posted by sammbriggs

thank you for posting such a sensible post. most people think that it's easy to be governor in the worst recession since the depression. most people might not like scott's unwillingness to tax, but as things stand, i don't think florida's attracting much wealth these days. start messing with the code and some of the payers might move away and that will leave us worse off. damned if do, damned if you don't

He will NEVER raise taxes, in fact, he is giving away tax money all the time in terms of tax breaks to his buddy's companies and new companies who promise to move here for a very brief time, rape the state, and then chase another tax break in another state

[sammbriggs]

Originally Posted by crazynip

He will NEVER raise taxes, in fact, he is giving away tax money all the time in terms of tax breaks to his buddy's companies and new companies who promise to move here for a very brief time, rape the state, and then chase another tax break in another state

i love it, competition in govt. keeps them on their toes