[doggiebus]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

While your post is most optimistic, I tend to want to be more of a realist. If the economy is improving, it is minimally, at best. If anything, and this is being totally optimistic, the economy is beginning to hold steady and not worsening further. The question that you need to answer is: Are you willing to pay significantly more in taxes so that business incentives, better technological education and health care can be available to all?

I am willing to pay for things I use! For instance, I think parents with children in public schools should pay more money than people without children in public schools.

I understand the argument of equal taxes, in one way I agree. But then I disagree in another when it comes to elderly retired people. With the small increase in taxes already the elderly homeowners that bought years ago, we have already created a hardship for some of them, as they are struggling to pay the tax increases we have already had. Could you image if we changed it to equal taxes for all, many retired elderly people couldn't afford it.

The longer everyone stays pesimistic (sp????) about the economy, the longer it will take to get out. We can be realist all we want, but if we think "Oh how bad it is..." the longer it will take to get better. Those that think negative, attract negativity. Those that think positive, attract positivity.

[HopToIt]

Why not make cigarettes $7 a pack? That could be a lot of money going towards education, and maybe things like property taxes wouldnt be so high.

I mean, think about it, a pack of cigs cost, what, $3 now? Take the $4 (7-3) from each pack sold, and how many ppl in FL smoke? Well, there are approx 18m ppl in FL. Lets say 65% of them are old enough to buy cigs. (guessing obviously). Out of that 65%, I bet 15% of them smoke. So, you got 1,755,000 smokers in FL. If they buy a pack per day x 365 days a yr!!!!???????!!! That's a lot of money! This is obviously hypothetical and I didnt even finish the math, but your talking millions and millions and millions of dollars!

[annerk]

Originally Posted by doggiebus

I am willing to pay for things I use! For instance, I think parents with children in public schools should pay more money than people without children in public schools.

I understand the argument of equal taxes, in one way I agree. But then I disagree in another when it comes to elderly retired people. With the small increase in taxes already the elderly homeowners that bought years ago, we have already created a hardship for some of them, as they are struggling to pay the tax increases we have already had. Could you image if we changed it to equal taxes for all, many retired elderly people couldn't afford it.

The longer everyone stays pesimistic (sp????) about the economy, the longer it will take to get out. We can be realist all we want, but if we think "Oh how bad it is..." the longer it will take to get better. Those that think negative, attract negativity. Those that think positive, attract positivity.

Seniors are already getting a homestead exemption. Not all seniors are low income, there are a huge number of them that are very wealthy, and they are benefitting from the inequitable tax burden. There will be some that can't afford it, I agree. By the same token, there are some who would like to come here and bring money with them to spend, but won't because of the property tax structure. So there are arguments to be made on both sides. If I was paying an equitable tax burden (which is probably about 50% of what I'm paying now) I'd have that much more money to spend in my community and donate to charity.

I do believe that we need to provide a basic free education for all children. Without that many children born into poverty will never be given teh chance to escape it, and will turn to crime--lack of free public education could drastically excaberate the crime problems as well as the incarcaration levels. It's cheaper to spend $6K a year to educate a child than it is to spend $30K a year to keep them behind bars.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by doggiebus

I am willing to pay for things I use! For instance, I think parents with children in public schools should pay more money than people without children in public schools.

I understand the argument of equal taxes, in one way I agree. But then I disagree in another when it comes to elderly retired people. With the small increase in taxes already the elderly homeowners that bought years ago, we have already created a hardship for some of them, as they are struggling to pay the tax increases we have already had. Could you image if we changed it to equal taxes for all, many retired elderly people couldn't afford it.

The longer everyone stays pesimistic (sp????) about the economy, the longer it will take to get out. We can be realist all we want, but if we think "Oh how bad it is..." the longer it will take to get better. Those that think negative, attract negativity. Those that think positive, attract positivity.

You are being so contradictory with the statements that you are making, and I am very unsure of your position. One one hand, you are advocating a reduction in health care costs, but on another, you advocate a system of those who use it should pay more. You are advocating a system where seniors will pay less for the schools, but then, want more money pumped into the schools. Are you saying that only those people who call the police, drive on the roads, or have fires extinguished at their homes should be taxed for these governmental services?

It will become very evident soon to those Florida residents, who fail to recognize the extensively strong implications that tourism has had upon the state economy, that someone from elsewhere has buoyed the a fractured system with their dollars for too many years. The inequitable system of taxation in Florida may soon come to light with the search by politicians for the next stream of tax revenue.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by annerk

Seniors are already getting a homestead exemption. Not all seniors are low income, there are a huge number of them that are very wealthy, and they are benefitting from the inequitable tax burden. There will be some that can't afford it, I agree. By the same token, there are some who would like to come here and bring money with them to spend, but won't because of the property tax structure. So there are arguments to be made on both sides. If I was paying an equitable tax burden (which is probably about 50% of what I'm paying now) I'd have that much more money to spend in my community and donate to charity.

I do believe that we need to provide a basic free education for all children. Without that many children born into poverty will never be given teh chance to escape it, and will turn to crime--lack of free public education could drastically excaberate the crime problems as well as the incarcaration levels. It's cheaper to spend $6K a year to educate a child than it is to spend $30K a year to keep them behind bars.

I agree totally, good post!

[doggiebus]

Originally Posted by Retiredcoach

You are being so contradictory with the statements that you are making, and I am very unsure of your position. One one hand, you are advocating a reduction in health care costs, but on another, you advocate a system of those who use it should pay more. You are advocating a system where seniors will pay less for the schools, but then, want more money pumped into the schools. Are you saying that only those people who call the police, drive on the roads, or have fires extinguished at their homes should be taxed for these governmental services?

I think that we should all pay, what we are paying now even seniors, but on top of that, parents with school age children in the public school system should pay in even more. Now is that ever going to happen, no, as many people can pay right now. Why should someone without school age children pay for education. I believe education is part of the factor to better florida.

As for the roads, well I live in Miami, and that is what is going to happen soon. We pay tolls right now on most expressways here, soon we will pay per mile we drive on the expressways, as there are going to be sunpass things at each on and off ramp. Do I agree with it, not really.

Realistically the counties, need to cut their overhead spending. I believe it was the Hollywood police department, that needed some reconn stuff for their swat team department but it was super expensive. I can't remember the number, but it was high. What did they do, they purchased similiar things for a fraction of what the big companies wanted to charge the county on their own. They bought a small tank from the military for $3,000 painted it and now it looks great.

[Lakeland Yankee]

Originally Posted by HopToIt

Why not make cigarettes $7 a pack? That could be a lot of money going towards education, and maybe things like property taxes wouldnt be so high.

I mean, think about it, a pack of cigs cost, what, $3 now? Take the $4 (7-3) from each pack sold, and how many ppl in FL smoke? Well, there are approx 18m ppl in FL. Lets say 65% of them are old enough to buy cigs. (guessing obviously). Out of that 65%, I bet 15% of them smoke. So, you got 1,755,000 smokers in FL. If they buy a pack per day x 365 days a yr!!!!???????!!! That's a lot of money! This is obviously hypothetical and I didnt even finish the math, but your talking millions and millions and millions of dollars!

Raising cigarette taxes do nothing for a state revenue. People will either stop smoking, buy them online, roll their own, drive up to Georgia, smoke less, buy them from Indian Reservations, etc etc. It ends up hurting the poor working class the most and the state doesn't gain any additional revenue from it. This has been proven in states that have the highest cig taxes.

The other problem with that is where do you stop if you start taxing unhealthy products? First cigs, then alcohol, then fast food, then a trans fat tax, etc. It becomes never ending.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by doggiebus

I think that we should all pay, what we are paying now even seniors, but on top of that, parents with school age children in the public school system should pay in even more. Now is that ever going to happen, no, as many people can pay right now. Why should someone without school age children pay for education. I believe education is part of the factor to better florida.

As for the roads, well I live in Miami, and that is what is going to happen soon. We pay tolls right now on most expressways here, soon we will pay per mile we drive on the expressways, as there are going to be sunpass things at each on and off ramp. Do I agree with it, not really.

Realistically the counties, need to cut their overhead spending. I believe it was the Hollywood police department, that needed some reconn stuff for their swat team department but it was super expensive. I can't remember the number, but it was high. What did they do, they purchased similiar things for a fraction of what the big companies wanted to charge the county on their own. They bought a small tank from the military for $3,000 painted it and now it looks great.

As long as the working population must pay for the accrued social security and medicare debts of the elder generation(s) (the system is currently in a revenue neutral mode), why should they bear the greater share of the financial responsibility of the next generation as well? Too many wish to abrogate the responsibility for the education to "someone else". There are certain responsibilities needing to be shared by all in a democratic society that cannot be discounted because of age alone , and education needs to be one of them.

[HopToIt]

I didnt even know you could buy cigs online. I am not so sure that, even at $7 a pack, people would stop smoking ciggies.

[dmccauley]

They are more then $7.00 per pack in NJ and I'm sure more in NY. I know some have quit and alot have cut down but they keep smoking.