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What I'm trying to say, is that the downturn in the re market encompasses so much more than the benefit of lower prices for a select few.
Select few? My entire generation couldn't buy ANYTHING anywhere near where we were employed (NYC, prior to my move, but this included the surrounding counties and even NJ and CT). When I say ANYTHING, I mean... not even tiny co-ops. Should everyone from their 20s-30s flee the city to LCOL states because of the housing bubble? The killer was, their salaries weren't even that horrible (all with master's degrees, and the appropriate employment) - but even with their yearly raises, and trying to save - the house that was $300k a few months ago soon turned into $500k.
This bubble burst has benefitted a LOT of people, especially where the bubbles were ridiculous, such as NYC. My friends up north are rejoicing - they'll still have a tough time, due to taxes up there, but now there is a glimmer of hope for them, as well. They've done nothing wrong - they certainly didn't try to buy houses they knew they couldn't afford - so why shouldn't I be happy for them/us?
Location: Halfway between Number 4 Privet Drive and Forks, WA
1,516 posts, read 4,591,647 times
Reputation: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryEyedSurprise
Select few? My entire generation couldn't buy ANYTHING anywhere near where we were employed (NYC, prior to my move, but this included the surrounding counties and even NJ and CT). When I say ANYTHING, I mean... not even tiny co-ops. Should everyone from their 20s-30s flee the city to LCOL states because of the housing bubble? The killer was, their salaries weren't even that horrible (all with master's degrees, and the appropriate employment) - but even with their yearly raises, and trying to save - the house that was $300k a few months ago soon turned into $500k.
This bubble burst has benefitted a LOT of people, especially where the bubbles were ridiculous, such as NYC. My friends up north are rejoicing - they'll still have a tough time, due to taxes up there, but now there is a glimmer of hope for them, as well. They've done nothing wrong - they certainly didn't try to buy houses they knew they couldn't afford - so why shouldn't I be happy for them/us?
Umm...hmmm...I look at things in the broader scheme, as in affecting us ALL. You're looking at things to benefit you and yours. There's much more going on here than you and your friends buying a house.
If I lived in one of the bubble areas, and couldn't afford to buy a home, I would put on my big girl panties and deal with it. Or I'd move somewhere else if I had to buy a house that bad.
I don't have empathy for those who see this as a "time to come into our own" party when so many that DID NOTHING wrong are suffering as a direct or indirect result of your "bubble". People EVERYWHERE are losing jobs. That's tragic. Not being able to buy a house...not so tragic.
If that makes me a party pooper in your book, oh well...
Select few? My entire generation couldn't buy ANYTHING anywhere near where we were employed (NYC, prior to my move, but this included the surrounding counties and even NJ and CT). When I say ANYTHING, I mean... not even tiny co-ops. Should everyone from their 20s-30s flee the city to LCOL states because of the housing bubble? The killer was, their salaries weren't even that horrible (all with master's degrees, and the appropriate employment) - but even with their yearly raises, and trying to save - the house that was $300k a few months ago soon turned into $500k.
This bubble burst has benefitted a LOT of people, especially where the bubbles were ridiculous, such as NYC. My friends up north are rejoicing - they'll still have a tough time, due to taxes up there, but now there is a glimmer of hope for them, as well. They've done nothing wrong - they certainly didn't try to buy houses they knew they couldn't afford - so why shouldn't I be happy for them/us?
Umm...hmmm...I look at things in the broader scheme, as in affecting us ALL. You're looking at things to benefit you and yours. There's much more going on here than you and your friends buying a house.
If I lived in one of the bubble areas, and couldn't afford to buy a home, I would put on my big girl panties and deal with it. Or I'd move somewhere else if I had to buy a house that bad.
Oh really? I didn't know I had millions of close, personal friends. Amazing! Apparently that's not many though, being labeled as a select few. Myself, I think that's quite a large chunk. I guess the baby boomers should only be referred to as "a couple of people."
But as I said to LongIsland, alot of this was brought on by very specific areas and very specific actions. I have a big, big problem with that affecting what has historically been relatively stable areas.
If it was in very specific areas, how can it possibly hurt relatively stable areas?
Also, don't confuse your worries about this hurting stable areas with complaints about people who are currently able to buy houses. Generally speaking, current buyers are the ones who were relatively responsible during the bubble. You should be happy that they acted reasonably, otherwise the bubble would have been worse. And without them buying now, prices would take an even bigger hit since demand would be lower.
Quote:
The unemployment rate has hiked in Georgia tremendously and I'm sorry, but it's certainly NOT all about "housing reverting to affordable levels." What is the explanation when housing HERE has always been at relatively affordable levels?
Did it get more or less affordable during the bubble? I'd imagine more than a few people refinanced during boom times there, which means that they were part of the credit bubble just like everyone else.
Location: Halfway between Number 4 Privet Drive and Forks, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC
If it was in very specific areas, how can it possibly hurt relatively stable areas?
Also, don't confuse your worries about this hurting stable areas with complaints about people who are currently able to buy houses. Generally speaking, current buyers are the ones who were relatively responsible during the bubble. You should be happy that they acted reasonably, otherwise the bubble would have been worse. And without them buying now, prices would take an even bigger hit since demand would be lower.
KC, the way I interpret what you just said, is that ALL areas experienced a bubble...even if prices didn't skyrocket?
Did it get more or less affordable during the bubble? I'd imagine more than a few people refinanced during boom times there, which means that they were part of the credit bubble just like everyone else.
I have no complaints with people currently buying. Heck, I'm a recent buyer, too. I would be glad people are able to buy now who may have been priced out in crazy areas before...but, I'm sure, even you can admit, ALOT, I mean ALOT of those "FTB bubble market buyers" that post here have a chip on their shoulder. I guess being in GA, since housing has been affordable for the most part, we just don't see alot of that hostility. It's unnerving and the would-be-Cinderella stories of the first time homebuyer have now been skewed in my mind so much by those type posters that I feel no sympathy for their original plight. Some of them have sucked away alot of compassion I once felt for the first time homebuyer.
Well, here, our appreciation rate has been around 3-4% historically. I didn't notice that acclerate or even change during the peak years. So again, I think this is more than being about "affordable." Housing has never been more affordable in GA, yet our market is soft. I guess that's unemployment and credit crunch kicking in...
Unless you're the Olson twins or Paris Hilton or the like, the chances of any 20 something, even with a Master's degree, buying real estate in NYC or Fairfield County, CT, has ALWAYS been not likely. Sure, there are some, maybe pre-bust Wall Street go-getters with crazy bonuses, but by and large, Manhattan and the surrounding suburbs have always been unaffordable for young-uns starting out. I couldn't buy my first home in San Diego until I was in my 30s because of prices. That was 20 years ago. Way pre-bubble. There are pockets in this country where unfortunately unless you're wealthy, you're not going to be able to buy. We moved WAY outside the county. A one-hour commute each way to work to be able to afford that house.
I think the bigger issue may be 20 somethings who think they should be able to walk out of college and drive BMWs and buy any house they want. That smacks of entitlement. And I'm not only insulting you, my own college age kids feel the same way, no matter how I try to explain it to them. This generation (and yes, I'm being overly stereotypical to make my point) by and large, want everything now and they don't want to work particularly hard for it. Whose fault is that? I'm taking that blame for my kids. I gave them too much too easily. But life has a way of making up for what parents DON'T teach their kids.
This economy is hurting way more than it's helping. I think that's Potter's point. I don't want to speak for her, but I've read and agreed with all of her posts. In the long run, that may not be true, but right now it is. It will turn around. Sooner rather than later. But right now, to be able to be happy about this is just something I'm not able to do. And it's making it much more affordable for my own kids. Still can't be happy. I see far too many young couples with young kids losing everything. My two college aged kids have several roommates. They're young and they like to party and that's fine for them. When you have small children? Not such a good scenario.
So I'll stick with feeling awfully bad about that for those people and I'll continue to volunteer and donate to the charities who are now feeding and housing those good people who did NOTHING to deserve this.
Those of you who are happy for yourselves and your friends, good for you.
Location: Halfway between Number 4 Privet Drive and Forks, WA
1,516 posts, read 4,591,647 times
Reputation: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by MsFancyPants
Unless you're the Olson twins or Paris Hilton or the like, the chances of any 20 something, even with a Master's degree, buying real estate in NYC or Fairfield County, CT, has ALWAYS been not likely. Sure, there are some, maybe pre-bust Wall Street go-getters with crazy bonuses, but by and large, Manhattan and the surrounding suburbs have always been unaffordable for young-uns starting out. I couldn't buy my first home in San Diego until I was in my 30s because of prices. That was 20 years ago. Way pre-bubble. There are pockets in this country where unfortunately unless you're wealthy, you're not going to be able to buy. We moved WAY outside the county. A one-hour commute each way to work to be able to afford that house.
I think the bigger issue may be 20 somethings who think they should be able to walk out of college and drive BMWs and buy any house they want. That smacks of entitlement. And I'm not only insulting you, my own college age kids feel the same way, no matter how I try to explain it to them. This generation (and yes, I'm being overly stereotypical to make my point) by and large, want everything now and they don't want to work particularly hard for it. Whose fault is that? I'm taking that blame for my kids. I gave them too much too easily. But life has a way of making up for what parents DON'T teach their kids.
This economy is hurting way more than it's helping. I think that's Potter's point. I don't want to speak for her, but I've read and agreed with all of her posts. In the long run, that may not be true, but right now it is. It will turn around. Sooner rather than later. But right now, to be able to be happy about this is just something I'm not able to do. And it's making it much more affordable for my own kids. Still can't be happy. I see far too many young couples with young kids losing everything. My two college aged kids have several roommates. They're young and they like to party and that's fine for them. When you have small children? Not such a good scenario.
So I'll stick with feeling awfully bad about that for those people and I'll continue to volunteer and donate to the charities who are now feeding and housing those good people who did NOTHING to deserve this.
Those of you who are happy for yourselves and your friends, good for you.
Unless you're the Olson twins or Paris Hilton or the like, the chances of any 20 something, even with a Master's degree, buying real estate in NYC or Fairfield County, CT, has ALWAYS been not likely. Sure, there are some, maybe pre-bust Wall Street go-getters with crazy bonuses, but by and large, Manhattan and the surrounding suburbs have always been unaffordable for young-uns starting out. I couldn't buy my first home in San Diego until I was in my 30s because of prices. That was 20 years ago. Way pre-bubble. There are pockets in this country where unfortunately unless you're wealthy, you're not going to be able to buy. We moved WAY outside the county. A one-hour commute each way to work to be able to afford that house.
Actually, if you look at historical prices in NYC suburbs, they were quite affordable in the 90s and prior. Prior to the bubble, you could buy a starter home in certain parts of Westchester/Rockland/Dutchess counties for a VERy reasonable price. Heck, my mother-in-law bought a 3 bedroom home with a full basement in a lovely town on "the phone guy's salary" and she was a stay-at-home mom. Their house did not appreciate in value until the 90s. As for a suburb.... considering that a one-bedroom co-op in Harriman (much more than an hour commute to the city) was well over $200k, whereas a few years prior young people could buy affordable housing in Westchester... your argument fails.
Moderator cut: personal remarks
Last edited by Marka; 04-20-2009 at 12:46 PM..
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