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Unless you're the Olson twins or Paris Hilton or the like, the chances of any 20 something, even with a Master's degree, buying real estate in NYC or Fairfield County, CT, has ALWAYS been not likely. Sure, there are some, maybe pre-bust Wall Street go-getters with crazy bonuses, but by and large, Manhattan and the surrounding suburbs have always been unaffordable for young-uns starting out. I couldn't buy my first home in San Diego until I was in my 30s because of prices. That was 20 years ago. Way pre-bubble. There are pockets in this country where unfortunately unless you're wealthy, you're not going to be able to buy. We moved WAY outside the county. A one-hour commute each way to work to be able to afford that house.
I agree w/ the above post by starry. I don't know about NYC prices, but the NYC suburbs was very affordable prior to the bubble. As I have stated multiple times, my dad and all my friends' parents bought homes in the 80s and 90s on ONE income. Their educations ranged from BS-MS (and a few had PhDs).
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I think the bigger issue may be 20 somethings who think they should be able to walk out of college and drive BMWs and buy any house they want. That smacks of entitlement. And I'm not only insulting you, my own college age kids feel the same way, no matter how I try to explain it to them. This generation (and yes, I'm being overly stereotypical to make my point) by and large, want everything now and they don't want to work particularly hard for it. Whose fault is that? I'm taking that blame for my kids. I gave them too much too easily. But life has a way of making up for what parents DON'T teach their kids.
Actually the average American workers now puts in more hours a week than they did in the past. At one point in time it was 40 hours a week. Now it's around 46 hours a week plus you have dual income households now. So it went from 40 hours to around 92 hours a week just to either stay in the same place or have a lower standard of living than our parents.
Unless you're the Olson twins or Paris Hilton or the like, the chances of any 20 something, even with a Master's degree, buying real estate in NYC or Fairfield County, CT, has ALWAYS been not likely. Sure, there are some, maybe pre-bust Wall Street go-getters with crazy bonuses, but by and large, Manhattan and the surrounding suburbs have always been unaffordable for young-uns starting out. I couldn't buy my first home in San Diego until I was in my 30s because of prices. That was 20 years ago. Way pre-bubble. There are pockets in this country where unfortunately unless you're wealthy, you're not going to be able to buy. We moved WAY outside the county. A one-hour commute each way to work to be able to afford that house.
I think the bigger issue may be 20 somethings who think they should be able to walk out of college and drive BMWs and buy any house they want. That smacks of entitlement. And I'm not only insulting you, my own college age kids feel the same way, no matter how I try to explain it to them. This generation (and yes, I'm being overly stereotypical to make my point) by and large, want everything now and they don't want to work particularly hard for it. Whose fault is that? I'm taking that blame for my kids. I gave them too much too easily. But life has a way of making up for what parents DON'T teach their kids.
This economy is hurting way more than it's helping. I think that's Potter's point. I don't want to speak for her, but I've read and agreed with all of her posts. In the long run, that may not be true, but right now it is. It will turn around. Sooner rather than later. But right now, to be able to be happy about this is just something I'm not able to do. And it's making it much more affordable for my own kids. Still can't be happy. I see far too many young couples with young kids losing everything. My two college aged kids have several roommates. They're young and they like to party and that's fine for them. When you have small children? Not such a good scenario.
So I'll stick with feeling awfully bad about that for those people and I'll continue to volunteer and donate to the charities who are now feeding and housing those good people who did NOTHING to deserve this.
Those of you who are happy for yourselves and your friends, good for you.
An awesome post. I hope they get it. And I'm not just talking about starry eyed. But on that note- Starry- my wife's best friend and her eventually husband, took jobs right out of college, in manhattan. She was a model for elite model agency and he in the financial district just off of wall street. So they both made more than a good salary for such a young age. They had a 600 sq. ft. apartment in 1985 and were paying 1,200/month plus outrageous utilities, for it. You're telling me things haven't always been out of wack in NYC? They made a dececnt living over time, and moved to NewJersey, bought a house, he commuted and she stayed home with their twin sons they had in 1992. They could NOT afford a home of any sort in the early 90's in manhattan, period. So I don't know how you can argue differently. As fancy said, there were and always have been parts of our nation that are unaffordable to some. That's why RE is different everywhere.
As for entitlement- Fancy you're dead on. many have been saying this for months on this thread. These people who want the big, fancy house, now, and turn their noses up at what IS affordable, as they are too good for the starter home and the price it offers. It's incredible, really. ANd just to clarify, it gets old to hear everyone complain about housing not being affordable. It is, everywhere, if you look. Is it the 4k sq. ft. custom, with all teh bells and whistles, piece of pie they once had a taste of in the "no money down, interest only age"? Nope, but there are millions of affordable homes in nice areas, period. My community is one of them, and many, many other suburbs of Chicago. You can get a nice 2ksq. ft. or so, single family 3-4 bd home for 200k or less, easy. That is incredibly affordable, period!!! I would guess NY has the same if you're willing to move out of the always has been expensive city of manhattan!
Actually, if you look at historical prices in NYC suburbs, they were quite affordable in the 90s and prior. Prior to the bubble, you could buy a starter home in certain parts of Westchester/Rockland/Dutchess counties for a VERy reasonable price.
Over the years, I have done 3 relocations into/out of the NY tri-state area. As prices in the closer in more desirable burbs began to rise, more and more people took on exceptionally longer commutes and drove prices up in areas, that a decade prior, would not have been considered a reasonable commute to the city.
I worked downtown with many people who routinely commuted 4-5 hours a day, on a good day.
An awesome post. I hope they get it. And I'm not just talking about starry eyed. But on that note- Starry- my wife's best friend and her eventually husband, took jobs right out of college, in manhattan. She was a model for elite model agency and he in the financial district just off of wall street. So they both made more than a good salary for such a young age. They had a 600 sq. ft. apartment in 1985 and were paying 1,200/month plus outrageous utilities, for it. You're telling me things haven't always been out of wack in NYC? They made a dececnt living over time, and moved to NewJersey, bought a house, he commuted and she stayed home with their twin sons they had in 1992. They could NOT afford a home of any sort in the early 90's in manhattan, period. So I don't know how you can argue differently. As fancy said, there were and always have been parts of our nation that are unaffordable to some. That's why RE is different everywhere.
As for entitlement- Fancy you're dead on. many have been saying this for months on this thread. These people who want the big, fancy house, now, and turn their noses up at what IS affordable, as they are too good for the starter home and the price it offers. It's incredible, really. ANd just to clarify, it gets old to hear everyone complain about housing not being affordable. It is, everywhere, if you look. Is it the 4k sq. ft. custom, with all teh bells and whistles, piece of pie they once had a taste of in the "no money down, interest only age"? Nope, but there are millions of affordable homes in nice areas, period. My community is one of them, and many, many other suburbs of Chicago. You can get a nice 2ksq. ft. or so, single family 3-4 bd home for 200k or less, easy. That is incredibly affordable, period!!! I would guess NY has the same if you're willing to move out of the always has been expensive city of manhattan!
For some reason my previous post was editted - apparently calling someone a baby boomer is offensive? - but as I stated previously - I'm talking 1.5-2 hour commutes to NYC (do you know where the Woodbury Commons is? I'm talking out there) being prohibitively expensive during the boom, whereas a modest home within a half hour of NYC being quite affordable to a single-income household (I'm talking the salary of a phone installer) was attainable in the 90s and prior. Yes NYC has been crazy for a while (not forever though).
Now, if I can try to make this sound nice - it seems as if previous posters are fixated on having one emotion for this whole economic situation. I am merely saying that: YES, a lot of us feel horribly for the responsible homeowners that are now without a home. Who wouldn't? However, YES, I am happy that an entire generation of equally responsible people can now buy a home in an area that was completely off-limits to them (assuming that no one would want a commute of 2+ hours EACH WAY, which is what it would have taken to own something during NYC's bubble). It is possible to be happy for your children while being upset for others' misfortunes. And, being happy doesn't mean that you are an opportunist, or heartless, either.
Incidentally, should I take offense at being labeled as feeling "entitled?" My old Honda Del Sol and beat up Hyundai Excel that was held together with black tape might have something to say about that, lol.
Over the years, I have done 3 relocations into/out of the NY tri-state area. As prices in the closer in more desirable burbs began to rise, more and more people took on exceptionally longer commutes and drove prices up in areas, that a decade prior, would not have been considered a reasonable commute to the city.
I worked downtown with many people who routinely commuted 4-5 hours a day, on a good day.
I believe it. I was an engineer that worked down on Union Square - my daily commute was almost 4 hours a day, and that was to a rental in NJ that cost me $1700/mo, for a one bedroom apt.
My mother bought her first house in Rockland in 1998, with $5000 down, for a small three-bedroom house - very reasonable for a first-time home buyer. In came the bubble - that house sold a little over a year later for triple what she bought it for, and all she did to the house was update the linoleum in the kitchen and plant a really scrawny Japanese maple sapling right smack in front of the door.
You can get a nice 2ksq. ft. or so, single family 3-4 bd home for 200k or less, easy. That is incredibly affordable, period!!! I would guess NY has the same if you're willing to move out of the always has been expensive city of manhattan!
This is not possible in westchester county which is outside NYC. My commute to work in NYC was about 2 hours each way also. We lived in the northern end and homes are on the market now b/w 400-500K when in 1999 they were going for around 220K. My neighborhood wasn't even close to the train station (which added to the commute). And these are average homes, 1800 sqft, 4bdr, 1.5 bath, built in the 60s-70s. We also lived in one of the cheaper areas in westchester and the prices are still out of control!
Now the average home in Westchester is $650,000. Now people make a little more money in the city and there, but not THAT much!!!
Anyway, just wanted to give my two cents that it's not possible to purchase a home for under 200 in a nyc suburb. I found maybe 2 in the mohegan lake/yorktown area (where I grew up) that are 250K but they are around 700 sqft with no pics of the inside. And again these places are like 1.5 - 2 hour commutes to NYC.
I believe it. I was an engineer that worked down on Union Square - my daily commute was almost 4 hours a day, and that was to a rental in NJ that cost me $1700/mo, for a one bedroom apt.
My mother bought her first house in Rockland in 1998, with $5000 down, for a small three-bedroom house - very reasonable for a first-time home buyer. In came the bubble - that house sold a little over a year later for triple what she bought it for, and all she did to the house was update the linoleum in the kitchen and plant a really scrawny Japanese maple sapling right smack in front of the door.
And that is the problem with those who advocate that the future revolves around urbanites and urbanization, centralization, and the death of the suburbs. As more people condense into one place prices rise, congestion rises, food, shelter, transportation, utilities, and other expenses rise. Developing new things cost a fortune as costs become prohibited in dense urban centers not to mention the hours of productivity lost due to commutes.
Instead of the death of the suburbs, wouldn't it make more sense to have work come out to the larger suburbs (that's where the workers are, and where development costs are less) - instead of people going into the cities for work and causing the aforementioned problems?
There are many suburbs throughout the Country and work places that have already started to crop up, adapting to technology, and this model. Bellevue in Washington is a very good example of a suburb become urban center as an outcrop of Seattle. Shaumburg, west of Chicago is also another good example of corporations adapting to the environment.
I believe it. I was an engineer that worked down on Union Square - my daily commute was almost 4 hours a day, and that was to a rental in NJ that cost me $1700/mo, for a one bedroom apt.
My mother bought her first house in Rockland in 1998, with $5000 down, for a small three-bedroom house - very reasonable for a first-time home buyer. In came the bubble - that house sold a little over a year later for triple what she bought it for, and all she did to the house was update the linoleum in the kitchen and plant a really scrawny Japanese maple sapling right smack in front of the door.
Starry again you are spot on. As you see There are those that obviously haven't fared to well and continue to be in denial about the market. Good post.
Location: Halfway between Number 4 Privet Drive and Forks, WA
1,516 posts, read 4,591,647 times
Reputation: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryEyedSurprise
For some reason my previous post was editted - apparently calling someone a baby boomer is offensive? - but as I stated previously - I'm talking 1.5-2 hour commutes to NYC (do you know where the Woodbury Commons is? I'm talking out there) being prohibitively expensive during the boom, whereas a modest home within a half hour of NYC being quite affordable to a single-income household (I'm talking the salary of a phone installer) was attainable in the 90s and prior. Yes NYC has been crazy for a while (not forever though).
Now, if I can try to make this sound nice - it seems as if previous posters are fixated on having one emotion for this whole economic situation. I am merely saying that: YES, a lot of us feel horribly for the responsible homeowners that are now without a home. Who wouldn't? However, YES, I am happy that an entire generation of equally responsible people can now buy a home in an area that was completely off-limits to them (assuming that no one would want a commute of 2+ hours EACH WAY, which is what it would have taken to own something during NYC's bubble). It is possible to be happy for your children while being upset for others' misfortunes. And, being happy doesn't mean that you are an opportunist, or heartless, either.
Incidentally, should I take offense at being labeled as feeling "entitled?" My old Honda Del Sol and beat up Hyundai Excel that was held together with black tape might have something to say about that, lol.
LOL...Hey now...some of those "phone installers" make very good money. Don't knock 'em.
My hubby happens to be one of those "phone guys." And I'm a stay at home mom. And I'm a generation X'er...not a baby boomer. So maybe an entire generation in your neck of the woods feels slighted, but as another poster said, that's because of the location you are in. We live in an awesome neighborhood with excellent schools 40 minutes from Atlanta, on one salary mind you. (So that has to tell you something about the affordability here.)
Sometimes when you can't change anything else, you can change location.
I remember on another thread you said you had about $1k monthly payment in student loans. That is a monthly house payment here!
Location: Halfway between Number 4 Privet Drive and Forks, WA
1,516 posts, read 4,591,647 times
Reputation: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongIslandCitizen
Starry again you are spot on. As you see There are those that obviously haven't fared to well and continue to be in denial about the market. Good post.
To whom are you referring? Nothing indicates any posters to be in distress, duress, or denial...
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