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Originally Posted by PawleysDude
Recently though, I'm amazed when I look at other trees, particularly on Ancestry. It seems at least 75-80% of them have no documentation whatsover except "Ancestry Family Trees", with maybe a census report or two thrown in.
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I don't use Ancestry Family Trees. For one thing, I have a few kooks in my father's family who think genealogy is limited only to dead ancestors, so everything is marked "private" in order to "protect the living" (an actual quote). Never mind the fact that information on the "living" is freely available all over the internet.
For another thing, I find Ancestry Family Trees to contain gross errors. Apparently, people are loathe to actually examine the documents they are saving. In one instance, one of my ancestors had 24 children according to this person's Ancestry Family Tree.
People are ignorant of a great many things, for example, in the South, and especially in Appalachia, it was quite common to call children by their middle names, instead of using their first names, so when you see "Henry" on the 1910 Census born about 1906, and then see "John H" on the 1920 Census born about 1906, that is the same person, not a different person, and a lot of people are just too stupid to recognized that.
After I eliminated 7 duplicate people from the tree, the birth certificates for the first 5 children (one of whom died as an infant) showed the same mother, who was not my ancestor. When I got it all sorted out, a man had married a woman who had five children, then she died and the man married my ancestor who bore him 12 children.
I'm also shocked by the number of idiots who add alternative or substitute names to documents. I was looking at a census record, and the enumerator had excellent hand-writing. The name in question was unmistakably clearly written, so that even Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles could have seen it, and yet three idiots added alternative names that weren't even closely related to the name in question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PawleysDude
Does nobody do research anymore? Has genealogy degenerated to a state of "copy and paste"? The errors that turn up in these trees are disgusting, blatant to a point a 3rd grader would know it's wrong. It's sad in so many ways, because these errors just keep spreading across the Internet exponentially. I fear we have grown too lazy.
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Unfortunately, technology makes people incredibly lazy.
And, yes, a good many people, perhaps the majority simply save a "Hint" to their tree without actually examining the document or whether it's factually related or not.
One thing I've noticed is that Ancestry Hints operate in a bizarre way.
I got zero Hints for a particular ancestor. But, using Family Search, I found the correct birth certificate and a Social Security death index record and entered that information into the ancestor's record.
Two months later, still no Hints, so I use the search function on Ancestry and up pops the very same birth and death info I got from Family Search, plus a Kentucky death record, plus the 1920, 1930 and 1940 Census records, plus a Social Security claims index, plus a marriage record, a Findagrave record, an obituary collection record, plus Indiana marriage or death records for three different children, and several records from public indexes.
Why that information never showed up as Hints is beyond any explanation by me.
So, as a matter of course, I always use the search function, and always use Family Tree to search for records as well.
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Originally Posted by westsideboy
Now, with my wife? She's Greek. I can't read it. They don't have cemeteries on her family's island (too small, they dig 'em up and put the bones in boxes after a few years,) and if there are any records, they are likely split between Turkey, Italy, and Greece. In her case it will likely be impossible to trace back beyond the memories of the living (which are pretty good, btw) and even then the oral memories are greatly aided by the naming traditions, which are not always accurate because of novel names, child deaths, etc. I love doing genealogy and family history with her family, but we do it understanding we will end up with a rough sketch, not a finished Vermeer.
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That's where DNA can help.
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Originally Posted by PawleysDude
Isn't that a great feeling! My paternal side is well documented back to Scotland in the late 1600's.
And then one day, I decided to take a Y-DNA test. Oh my, the curves life can throw at us.
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It's important to understand history.
King James, sometime during the first 10 years of the 1600s (I forget when exactly) outlawed the MacGregor Clan, not because they wiped out the Calhoun Clan, but because the killed several priests watching the battle.
So, those MacGregor's that weren't caught and executed all went into exile and changed their last names, usually to the name of a Clan that was an ally to them. The knowledge of their true identity was passed from father to son, and later on in the clear, some, but not all MacGregor's restored their surname.
If you are a Stewart or a Pringle (or another), you might actually be a MacGregor, but only a Y-DNA test will bear that out.
If the authorities declared someone to be an out-law -- outside the law so that any person could freely kill you, and usually for a reward -- they usually changed their surname. It wasn't a common thing, but people with English, Scottish or Irish ancestries need to be aware of that if you're attempting to get a paper trail prior to the early 1700s.
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Originally Posted by PA2UK
Once got in an argument with someone who insisted their tree went back to BC. I pointed out even professionals can't genealogically link the middle ages to antiquity with any surety, and this person had only been doing this for 2 months. Several people backed me up, but nope, this person just would NOT hear of it.
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That's amusing, considering that surnames only came into use about 1,000 years ago.
Surnames were typically occupations, place names or a characteristic, like the English surname Walker.
If your ancestors were of high social standing, such as a member of royalty, a noble or lesser noble, or a member of the clergy -- remember that Catholic priests were allowed to marry and have families before one of the popes later prohibited it, then you might be able to trace your lineage back to maybe the 800s.
Prior to 800, the best you could hope for is a DNA match to a specific person with a recorded history.
There was a Greek slave named Minos who rose to the rank of
Primus Pilus (3rd in command of a legion). When he retired from the Roman Army, he was made a citizen and given a land grant in Trier. The governor of Trier then gave him a charter to found a colony at the confluence of several small rivers.
The place was known as Au de Minos -- "the Waters of Minos." That was around the late 300s CE.
The Franks came and the name was changed to Minosauwen. Over the next several centuries it evolved into Miesauen (around 1600 CE), and finally Miesau. It's in western Germany near the French border in the Alsace-Lorraine region.
So, here's a case where we have recorded history, and if you could find the body of Minos and extract DNA, you could trace your ancestry to that very point in time, but not the exact lineage.
Whenever they uncover ancient remains, they always extract DNA. They're not always successful in doing so, but where they are, they don't seem to want to make the DNA information available to the public, and I think they should be forced to do so, especially where public money like tax dollars at the local, State or federal level are funding their research in whole or in part.