Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
With all our debt, do we even have a decade left before states start seceding? lol
I seriously do not believe the states will start to secede. We are not in the 1850s or 1860s anymore. This nation fought a war to get rid of that and slavery. I think it will be business as usual and people will have to try and be creative in order to support themselves financially at least for the near future. Yes, change is a constant thing, but secession? Unlikely from what I see.
Most Americans are gonna say the US will always be around. I disagree. I see vast unrest in this country, there is a dip and divide in America today that is much wider and much deeper than EVER. I would be surprised if the US was still around in 2100.
We already had a civil war and instead of destroying the nation it actually unified us and begat the strongest, richest civilization that the world has ever seen.
My wife is a liberal and I am a conservative. We are just getting ready to do some gardening together.
Amen! A republican will def come into office in 2012, thank god. Obama was the biggest mistake ever made, at the worst time possible just because people wanted to see a black president. They were brainwashed by sayings like "yes we can" and "change". What idiots.
Wrong on all counts. He will be reelected, easily. Obama was (and is) a source for hope and is an honest attempt to change the terrible partison divide in DC. No more servitude to the oil companies and other monied interests. Is he exactly what I had hoped for and expected? No. But I suspect that he is trying to find a middle ground and, based on the actions of 'the party of no', he has a tough row to hoe.
If the antagonists would try to get back toward a middle ground, as he has attempted, our country would be far better off. However, politics rises above all else (an attitude intensified by the last administration), and the only way he can probably succeed is to do a little of what he opposes. Too bad. He has alienated the left because he tries to take a middle ground, rather than engage in payback.
In the long run, his approach is correct. Unfortunately, it will take the long, long, long run. Neither side is willing or patient enough to try it. Both want immediate political victory. If he is to succeed and continue, someone has to convince the naysayers that there is a better way than just opposing EVERYTHING. (The party of no has succeeded in filibustering the seate mmore than at any other time in history. They would rather see the country die by inaction than achieve a political goal.)
Unfortunately, many are just too stupid to see the truth. They vote against their own self (and country) interests. (Read the book "What's the Matter With Kansas".)
Obama is the biggest bait-and-switch snake oil salesman in recorded history. President Hope-And-Change, despite his golden tongue, has done nothing except perpetuate and more deeply entrench Bush's executive power policies/foreign policies, put the people who caused the financial collapse in charge of Wall Street, put the people who caused the oil spill in charge of cleanup, put the people who made healthcare unaffordable in charge of healthcare "reform", and so on. He's absolutely NO different than Bush when you look at what he's actually done instead of looking at what he says. He's out for Corporate America first, and ordinary folk somewhere around 175th.
That so many people still believe that the two legacy parties are opposing forces who actually have the people's interests at heart is proof that our media and our schools have created an electorate that is too ignorant to act in its own best interests. The government is nothing more than the front people for the super-wealthy. That goes for both parties. Ultimately, when push comes to shove, Russ Feingold doesn't have your best interests at heart any more than Sarah Palin does. The arguing and bickering might make good TV and might look awfully convincing, but anyone who by now doesn't see that they're all on the same team doesn't get it- which is practically everyone.
If you doubt that, all you have to do is look at the comical ineffectiveness of the Democrats over the past, oh, 30 years if not more. Every time they are in a position to be truly populist, or do something like simply not engage in a war, or whenever they are on the right side of an issue with the numbers to back themselves up, they always find some excuse why they can't do the right thing. Single-payer health care isn't "politically feasible". They had to pass the Patriot Act because the mean old Republicans would call them names if they didn't. Same with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. Same with the Iraq debacle. Ultimately, they always go along with what the "opposition" party wants. Why? Because they want the same things as Republicans want, but Democrats have the added burden of trying to maintain the facade of being "The Party of the People" as they're screwing said people blind.
I don't profess to know the future, but if the United States does survive, our days as King of the World are soon to be over. Our kleptocracy we call a government is busily and rapidly gutting the middle class and has almost finished turning us into a glorified banana republic (you thought stuff like Alvin Greene only happened in countries like Nicaragua, huh?).
All I know is that I'm so friggin' fed up with the football-fan mentality that most people follow politics with. We couldn't be getting screwed over without our consent and our ignorance, and unfortunately, we've given the elites both. As long as we keep fighting fake fights like which party is more evil, they'll both keep colluding to take from us whatever is left to steal. And frankly, that's exactly what we deserve.
In our lifetimes probably not but that doesn't mean it hasn't been thought about. I think there are several areas of the country that if it was feasible and financially possible would consider it.
I don't see how the USA can remain in its current form if it doesn't deal with its society and its many severe problems. I just don't see how this country can continue on its current destructive path without severe consequences. Many which we are already seeing. Our financial mess. The possible destruction of our gulf coast and its way of life. Our crime rates and immigration issues are completely out of control. The wide difference in our cultures and socioeconimic makeup. Never have I seen such a wide divide between rich and poor in America. I don't see how the country will survive with 50 states as our history continues unless we pull together. Some states will eventually petition to leave the USA if things don't improve in the years to come. I definitely see what is going to happen in Arizona as a sure sign of disgust between a state and the Federal Gov't.
mb919 makes a valid point in terms of both major parties being capitalist parties that are indeed part of the overall ideological superstructure of the capitalist state and dedicated to preserving capitalism. Democrats generally believe in a more statist approach to managing capitalism, while Republicans would likely revert to a laissez faire variety of capitalism if they could actually get away with doing so. The policies of the two parties operate around the periphery of the overall capitalist system. Those who charge that Obama and the Democratic Party in general are socialists understand neither socialism nor the fact that the American ruling class are totally wedded to capitalism. Indeed, even FDR was attempting to preserve the capitalist system by introducing statist and welfare state/social democratic elements that would essentially protect the goose that layed the golden eggs from itself and from the revolutionary wrath of a proletariat that had pretty much lost everything in the Great Depression. Obama's tinkering with the system is far less radical, but again meant to preserve the capitalist market economy, not to subvert it.
So you mean to tell me that during the civil war their wasn't "vast unrest" and "divide in America"?
I think the biggest Issue in the U.S. is that a lot of people have become wimps. Compared to the majority of the countries in the world Americans live great lives. Compared to the lifestyle of the 1800's and early 1900's, Americans today have a very cushy lifestyle.
I wanted to join the Scouts when I was younger, but my parents were too cheap, so off to the library and into the action-adventure and firearms sections.
After that, bicycle into the isolated pockets of the desert and live like an old cowboy movie I just watched.
My mom and stepdad didn't care and I learned a great deal from personal experimentation than say, reading a bunch of outdoor mags on the given topic.
Anywho, I'm starting to believe the new generation of babies will have to be exposed to the Davy Crockett tales and other legends in order to stir that sense of adventure in them.
After that, some time in the scouts and if they want some college/tech-school assistance after high-school, bring back the mandatory military/public-service option(this is only if the student intends to receive financial aid and such).
We got get tough one way or another, and XBox3, and MTV Bimbo Reality isn't going to cut it.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,476,450 times
Reputation: 12187
Another example of why sports teaches lessons for real life: just look at the recent college conference realignment. Like our country (composed of 50 "states") college conferences are unions of mutual choice by the 'state' (in this case athledemic institutions) and the "federal" body (the conference).
Bill Clinton was right when he said "it's the economy, stupid". Why did Texas not leave the Big 12? Because they could make more money. Why did Nebraska leave? Because they thought they could make more money.
As long as being in a large union of states is more economical than being in a balconized North America there will be a United States spanning coast to coast. Right now there is no question that it is better for everyone involved. There are draw backs in any union, but as long as the positive outweighs the negative the union remains. California may not enjoy losing tax revenue it sends to Washington to states like Kentucky that get back more than they pay, but that's also 4 million people that California have to sell its goods to without tariffs or crossing int'l boundaries.
I don't think that any of us can forecast with any reasonable degree what will happen past this current generation. That being said, I feel pretty confident that America will still be around the day I die, and I'm just 24.
Wrong on all counts. He will be reelected, easily. Obama was (and is) a source for hope and is an honest attempt to change the terrible partison divide in DC.
Location: Austin, TX/Chicago, IL/Houston, TX/Washington, DC
10,138 posts, read 16,049,308 times
Reputation: 4047
Quote:
Originally Posted by MimzyMusic
With all our debt, do we even have a decade left before states start seceding? lol
Succession is such a stupid idea, we're stronger when we're together than we are separated. Chances are if any state were to succeed they would fail after doing do, centuries of dependence on one solitary nation will harm any state that succeeded. Secession is a suicidal thought for any state.
And I don't think any state will ever succeed.
The USA will last, it's still the most powerful country out there, when you're hit hard, you form bonds, European Countries made their union, you don't break bonds...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
