What is the true Divide Line between the North and the South? (purchase, east coast)
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St. Louis was founded in 1764. New Orleans in 1718.
My bad, thats what I get for posting before I have coffee.
Anyway, my fundamental point was that the French were in the Mid-Mississippi Valley pretty much all at the same time, and they werent building anything of architectural significance anywhere until at least 1800.
What I mean by significant is buildings of stone or brick, there are several significant buildings still standing in Ste Genevieve and other places that were built from wood.
Anything built in the 19th century anywhere in the Mississippi Valley, or anywhere else, was of total European influence, up until this; History of Art Deco
And it was still French.
It's a very blurry dividing line to be sure because in the US, as probably with other countries, cultural influences tend to mix and mingle. Thus you get cities like St. Louis and Cincinnati, which by and by are definitively Midwestern, at least according to the residents, however we don't have much in common with cities like Chicago from what I've found. The problem is the Midwest is such a huge and broad region when it would be much better divided into midland/lower midwest and then upper midwest.
Pretty much STL and Cincy (I would assume KC as well) have a lot in common, with Indianapolis thrown in the mix as well and is strikingly different than Chicago, Detroit, etc.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Originally Posted by CincyIU29
It's a very blurry dividing line to be sure because in the US, as probably with other countries, cultural influences tend to mix and mingle. Thus you get cities like St. Louis and Cincinnati, which by and by are definitively Midwestern, at least according to the residents, however we don't have much in common with cities like Chicago from what I've found. The problem is the Midwest is such a huge and broad region when it would be much better divided into midland/lower midwest and then upper midwest.
Pretty much STL and Cincy (I would assume KC as well) have a lot in common, with Indianapolis thrown in the mix as well and is strikingly different than Chicago, Detroit, etc.
I disagree with that strongly. We have a lot in common with Chicago in terms of industry, architecture, and demographics. St. Louis reminds me a lot of Cleveland and to an extent Detroit. They have a lot more in common with cities of the Upper Midwest than with any Southern cities.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Originally Posted by Ben Around
Most of the Catholics in FL moved there from the NE, Midwest and Cuba. As late as the 70s, the Diocese of Miami covered the whole state!
I agree there...most of Texas' Catholic population is due to the Hispanic presence there obviously from Mexican immigrants. Louisiana obviously is a unique case for the entire country...the Cajun and Creole elements, among other things, make Louisiana another Catholic outlier...but visit the area where they are concentrated and it still rings Deep South true to the note.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Originally Posted by murksiderock
Its impossible to make a definitive hard line. My opinion is that south of Fredericksburg and Charlottesville in VA still have enough characteristics to be considered southern, but Richmond has been challenging this thought for years and is itself somewhat of a transition zone. Everything north of Charleston in WV has enough characteristics to pass as NOT being southern, but Charleston, like Richmond, is kinda blurring its "southerness" as well. I believe the entire state of Kentucky to be southern except for metro Louisville, and although there is southern culture there, it compares more to Cincy and Indy moreso than Memphis and Birmingham. The southeastern portion of Mizzou, in the Mississippi Valley, is most definitely southern, but going west I'm not sure. Going north, you are certqinly out of the South by the time you reach St. Louis, although they also have a somewhat blurry southern/midwestern culture...
The point in my post is that it is difficult to say whats South the farther north you go. To some people, Richmond, Charleston, Louisville and St. Louis areas are all southern, to some they all are not, and to others they are exactly what they are: regional transition zones. I understand the point of this thread, but it is enormously difficult to create a modern day North/South dividing line...
There's nothing blurry about St. Louis' culture...it is definitively Midwestern. Anybody who has trouble calling St. Louis Midwestern has never been to the Midwest themselves. Louisville is unquestionably Southern...a stark contrast to St. Louis...I've driven between the two cities, they are VERY different culturally and architecturally. Louisville has the boom and vibe of the New South architecturally, culturally, linguistically, and politically. Richmond is undebatably Southern...CHarleston may have some manufacturing but is southern in every other respect.
Delaware is technically north of the Mason-Dixon and Maryland is south. Someone posted that part of New Jersey is south of the line. Sorry. The entire state is north of of the Mason-Dixon. The Mason-Dixon Line was never intended to separate the North and South or free and slave. It was only established to settle a border dispute between MD and PA. The TRUE Mason-Dixon only runs between MD and PA and MD and DE. Delaware was once part of PA. Delaware was a slave state that is north of the Mason-Dixon. Go figure.
Rural areas in many states have a "southern" feel. South Jersey is VERY rural and has the same feel as Lower Delaware or the Eastern Shore of Maryland. Lancaster County, PA (as with most of the state) is the same way. Fairfax County, VA feels like the North. Hush Puppies and sweet tea are hard to find in MD and DE. Maybe that means something. I don't know.
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Originally Posted by tech12
Delaware is technically north of the Mason-Dixon and Maryland is south. Someone posted that part of New Jersey is south of the line. Sorry. The entire state is north of of the Mason-Dixon. The Mason-Dixon Line was never intended to separate the North and South or free and slave. It was only established to settle a border dispute between MD and PA. The TRUE Mason-Dixon only runs between MD and PA and MD and DE. Delaware was once part of PA. Delaware was a slave state that is north of the Mason-Dixon. Go figure.
Rural areas in many states have a "southern" feel. South Jersey is VERY rural and has the same feel as Lower Delaware or the Eastern Shore of Maryland. Lancaster County, PA (as with most of the state) is the same way. Fairfax County, VA feels like the North. Hush Puppies and sweet tea are hard to find in MD and DE. Maybe that means something. I don't know.
Maryland really isn't the south today at all. The true Mason-Dixon line might run between Maryland and Pennsylvania, but the true north-south line IMO is U.S. Highway 50 roughly (D.C. metro entirely included north of the line).
Location: Jefferson City 4 days a week, St. Louis 3 days a week
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Originally Posted by Ben Around
Most of the Catholics in FL moved there from the NE, Midwest and Cuba. As late as the 70s, the Diocese of Miami covered the whole state!
Agreed. in Louisiana, the majority of Catholics come of the Cajun/Creole/French influence, mixed in with a little German and a little Italian. In terms of Texas, Hispanics and transplants account for the large Catholic populations. Florida, as you said, is all transplant-influenced for its Catholicism. So each is Catholic for their own unique reason.
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