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What an ethnic white these days a Catholic or Jewish people? This thread is hilarious.
Catholics and Jews (especially the latter) have historically been seen as "others" within American society. Jews are both an ethnicity and religion. Catholicism (and to a lesser extent, Orthodoxy) correlate well with most other white ethnic groups.
An interesting book on Irish ethnicity and "whiteness" is How the Irish Became White by Noel Ignatiev.
From a Black Philadelphia perspective, I think the Irish are obviously seen as more "white" than Jews or Italians. Yet there's still a distinctiveness about the Irish too. For starters, there's always been a geographic concentration. For anybody who lived in Philly in the 90s, you probably remember what went down in Grays Ferry and the Blacks and Irish there. Blacks, I think, tend to be acutely aware of the Irish presence in cities because of that history. When W.E.B. Dubois wrote The Philadelphia Negro in 1899, he called Blacks and Irish "hereditary enemies."
But there's also the fact that the Irish tend to be expressive when it concerns their identity. I mean, you walk into Chubby's, and there's an Irish flag hanging right in your face. In Boston, they sell green and red Sox jerseys. And of course "Irishness" is played up during campaign season.
Catholics and Jews (especially the latter) have historically been seen as "others" within American society. Jews are both an ethnicity and religion. Catholicism (and to a lesser extent, Orthodoxy) correlate well with most other white ethnic groups.
That shows you how stupid society is because if you can't tell by looking at a person what religion they are. Lot of Jewish women I know have blonde hair and blue eyes and same with Catholics.
From a Black Philadelphia perspective, I think the Irish are obviously seen as more "white" than Jews or Italians. Yet there's still a distinctiveness about the Irish too. For starters, there's always been a geographic concentration. For anybody who lived in Philly in the 90s, you probably remember what went down in Grays Ferry and the Blacks and Irish there. Blacks, I think, tend to be acutely aware of the Irish presence in cities because of that history. When W.E.B. Dubois wrote The Philadelphia Negro in 1899, he called Blacks and Irish "hereditary enemies."
But there's also the fact that the Irish tend to be expressive when it concerns their identity. I mean, you walk into Chubby's, and there's an Irish flag hanging right in your face. In Boston, they sell green and red Sox jerseys. And of course "Irishness" is played up during campaign season.
Yes, in that book they allude to the fact that Irish needed to distance themselves from blacks, often in a violent way, in order to be accepted into the mainstream white society even though they lived amongst eachother, worked the same jobs and were looked down on pretty equally. The Irish didn't really break through until they became a political force. Italians and Jews probably "became white" even later on.
I have been in many a Philadelphia boxing gyms. Been to more fights than I can remember. Can't ever remember seeing a German flag in any gym or at any fight. Puerto Rican flag, yeah. Italian flag, yeah. You even see some Mexican flags now. Never seen a German flag.
Yes, in that book they allude to the fact that Irish needed to distance themselves from blacks, often in a violent way, in order to be accepted into the mainstream white society even though they lived amongst eachother, worked the same jobs and were looked down on pretty equally.
They made for a beautiful combination in the boxing ring. Some of the most influential trainers in Philadelphia were Irish: Jack Brady, Billy Briscoe, Jimmy Cullins, "Pop" O'Brien. Also a lot of Italian-American trainers like Pete Lorenzo, Mickey Grandinetti, Eddie Aliano and Al Ritacco. So you have the Irish rumbling style on the one hand and then the African American counterpunching-defensive oriented style on the other. Put the two together and you get some dynamic fighters.
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