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Saint Louis is my hometown and I LOVE it. Passionately. It is without a doubt my favorite river city. But that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of wonderful river cities all across the country. The pictures for San Antonio alone prove that. (And San Antonio seems to have embraced it's river in a way a lot of larger cities might envy).
As a native St.Louisan now living in NYC (the Bronx) I want to thank Chitownwarrior for posting those gorgeous photos of my hometown. I especially appreciate that you selected photos of various STL neighborhoods and locales. Some of them are views I'd never seen before. As stunning as the Gateway Arch is, I'm grateful you showed that there's true depth and heart to St. Louis as an urban center. Thank you.
Please forgive the touchiness some of us St.Louisans feel around Chicagoans. It's a flinch response. Last year I was at large arts function in Boston and struck up a conversation with a guy who mentioned he was from Chicago. I was excited to meet a fellow urban midwesterner. I told him I was from St. Louis hoping to stir up a little midwestern warmth amid the beautiful but sometimes chilly streets of Boston.
He slapped me down good. And in front of several people.
"St. Louis?" he said with more than a little disdain...and it went downhill from there. My gut reaction was that he - for some bizarre reason - felt a little intimidated by the Boston crowd and felt a need to distance himself from the "taint" of the midwest by insulting my city and me. Like in elementary school - trying to get in with the cool kids by slapping down someone he perceived as even more "uncool" than himself.
All of which was in his head.
That said, its disappointing that we'd do the same thing on this thread. Putting down Oklahoma, Nebraska, etc. Never been there, but they look lovely. I know - "good natured ribbing" and all that. Be proud of your city folks, but don't start insulting everyone else's.
My vote for sleeper river city: Providence. Lovely small city that has embraced its river beautifully.
Anduarto,
Thanks so much for your thoughtful and insightful post. It makes me really happy indeed that you recognized my effort to post the astonishing "oh my god can't believe thats st. louis" pictures. I'm sorry the Chicago native felt like that in Boston, maybe he had low self-esteem and being from a "bigger" city felt the need to push a "lowly" Cardinals fan/st louisan to the side. If it were me, I wouldve been excited as hell! (intimidated by people from boston? ive been to boston and it no way competes wiht chicago in terms of city life)
I see a lot of disdain for st. louis here in Chicago (mainly from baseball) and some, when st. louis is mentioned, from a my $%^ is bigger than yours perspective (many of those people haven't spent a decent time in stl). But during cubs-cards game, there is indeed a bitter rivalry we have, and st. louisans are no saints either.
I know other chicagoans who went to school in st. louis, stayed there, and continue to love it. I also know chicagoans who come back saying they need a busier and bigger environment, but they still admit they liked living and studying there. A lot of them referred st. louis as Chicago-light...having all the amenities of Chicago and diversity, just in much reduced scales. Although, i think you guys actually have a larger bosnian population from what my cousin tells me.
Nonetheless, thanks so much for the nice post. And true, all cities have their unique qualities and shouldn't be overlooked. (i just dont like the smaller city defense mechanism of placing their cities on same tiers as larger more developed and historic cities). Thanks again!
I think St. Louis is somewhat defensive against larger cities. Some St. Louisans may feel bullied, and some Chicagoans may blow St. Louis off as a smaller city, so I think it goes both ways.
I have nothing against Chicagoans, as long as they don't act like St. Louis is less of a quality city because of its size.
I have heard that there's a bit of this kind of resentment between KC and STL, but I haven't experienced it firsthand.
Basically St. Louis and Chicago are both wonderful cities, and no city is right for everyone. I think St. Louis just wants to prove itself as a city that is as "good" as Chicago, though neither is better.
(so i take it you didnt see the pics -- cause you see, the whole point of my post before was to show how beautiful st. louis was, not some crazy conspiracy to make st. louis a southern city....!!!)
I saw your pictures. They were great. I have also seen those pictures before you found them I just don't agree with your opinion that St. Louis is 50% Southern. You attack me from another angle once I beat you again. OH.MY.GOD. You just don't know when to quit, do you?
How could Omaha possibly be a "brother" to st. louis? My cousins from would be like...omg get away. Omaha??? Is that the new comeback city now? Isn't that where our beef comes from? .... just joking... Omaha = 820,000 people, St. louis = 2,900,000 people. Please don't tell me you're going to start comparing those two cities now. i met someone in chicago from omaha, and my friend was like, so how do you like living in the big city?? and she said..what do you mean im from omaha, its not that different. and my friend was confused...he said, it isn't? then she replied...yeah its bigger than st. louis and minneapolis....riiiiiight. (i guess she was going by "city" populations, and if so she was correct -Indy residents tend to do the same thing which annoys the heck out of me)...please dont tell me your ignorant enough to go by "city" stats....
Honestly if people in cities like Indy or Omaha or Tulsa or OKC or Louisville would just be like....it's a smaller city, and for its size offers X which is really great. Come check out the ___. THEN, people would be like, oh my god! let me check that out. Instead, they annoyingly put themselves in with cities MUCH further developed in history and cutlure and most of the time size and say "my city is on the same page as your city". That's why all these arguments break out. That's also why San Antonio folks always fight with Houston and Dallas folks, because they try to be ont he same tier (Because their city gains population by annexing land so their residents think theyre living big city life and beef up their city based on foundationless facts)
I wouldn't say Indianapolis is a nice city, I would say its an "OK" city. See the Indianapolis forum, even Indy residents agree with this. I wouldn't say it offers "nothing to the world", but I get what he's saying with that comment.
THe only midwestern cities I would give two looks at, or tell foreign visitors who visit Chicago all the time looking for other midwestern cities worth visiting are:
Minneapolis, St. Louis, Detroit...maybe KC, Cleveland..then Cincinatti, Milwaukee period. Why those three? Because 1.) their size 2.) their cultural offerings, history and things to see and 3.) they're developed enough to have light rail and decent public transportation. Yes, Detroit still has many cultural offerings to visitors and isn't as bad as people make it out to be.
San Antonio is one of the fastest growing big cities in the nation. It has about 2.1 million(metro) now and in 10-15 years it could easily reach 3 million. San Antonio is not growing by just annexation.
You can compare San Antonio city limits with Dallas and Houston's but not metros. Those two metros count much more land, so it's not a fair comparison. You can fit both San Antonio & Austin metros into DFW's or Houstons.
City proper comparsion
year 2000 S.A. 333 sq miles 1.2 million 2007 408 sq miles 1.3 million(Far Southside annexation)
Dallas 384 sq miles 1.2 million
Houston 600 sq. miles 2.1 million
Why would any S.A. forumers say metros are in same tier? They clearly are not. They are all important cities, have major corporations HQ's, and are major convention destinations. Overall I wouldn't put them in the same league.
Metros DFW and Houston 5-6 million
Metro San Antonio 2 million range
Last edited by SweethomeSanAntonio; 02-27-2008 at 01:51 AM..
Cool, I'm going to have to check omaha out . 311 is from there so it's gotta pretty dope. What's the lewis and clark landing site going to be like...and whats the old market like???
Lewis and Clark Landing will be like a massive park with educational areas some trails and historical sites. Its a bit hard to describe because there is so much.
The Old Market used to be old industrial warehouses a long time ago. Omaha changed that we converted it to retail/restaurant space and there are still old brick roads there which give it an old fashioned feel. The upper floors have been changed to condos and lofts. Its a bit strange because it has a small town feel and its very amazing.
I hope you do check out Omaha, and, if you have kids or just want to go to a good zoo go to Henry Doorly Zoo one of the best zoos in the country.
I saw your pictures. They were great. I have also seen those pictures before you found them I just don't agree with your opinion that St. Louis is 50% Southern. You attack me from another angle once I beat you again. OH.MY.GOD. You just don't know when to quit, do you?
No offense dude but you are really making a fool of your self
Chicago is not the best city in the world or even country so stop acting like you can tell people who the are!!!!! I'm not a redneck farmer from the Corn Town of Omaha. St. Louis is about as far north as Kansas city which you probably dont consider southern?? or is everything south of your 'precious' Chicago southern to you? Also dont insult Indianapolis its a nice city and for the final time St. Louis is NOT A SOUTHERN CITY get that through your arogant chicagan heads. Or are us nebraskans to redneck of farmers to listen to because you live in the holy city of Chicago????!!!! NEVER INSULT MY St. Louis BROTHERS!!!!!!!!
So now it's an insult to be southern? (although, to me it is a fate worse than death) I thought I was in the minority, but apparently not. Also, the people of Indianapolis are nice people. The city is worthless.
Whoa dude. Chill out. St. Louis is a pretty midwestern town....but it's definitely got a serious southern vibe going. Like it or not...Missouri and St. Louis in particular do share a lot of similarities with more southern states. And it's not a bad thing, either. St. Louis' great hospitality is due to its southern roots.
We're a part of the Midwest, whether you want us to be or not or whether we want us to be or not. That's the simple fact of the matter. You think I'm the only one that says St. Louis is part of the Midwest? Look up practically every source concerning it. You should find it is in the Midwest. But you're from Chicago, so I know you won't.
Technically, but St. Louis is about as Midwestern as Samuel Clemens.
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I just don't agree with your opinion that St. Louis is 50% Southern. You attack me from another angle once I beat you again. OH.MY.GOD. You just don't know when to quit, do you?
Also, the people of Indianapolis are nice people. The city is worthless.
