Warm, liberal, small city in USA that's not too crowded? (chapel, co-op)

[ProgressiveBelle]

Hello All,

I've pored through a gazillion posts here and keep seeing a similar question pop up but not quite what I need. Hubby and I are beyond ready to move. Again. We have our own online business and can live anywhere we can get reasonable speed internet (read: NO satellite or DSL). I know what we want is not possible in the US, but would like to get as close as possible. Here are our MUST HAVES:

* Warm weather / very mild winters / LOTS of sunny days - defined as rarely below 40 and more than 250+ days of sunshine. We don't care about humidity as we have lived in Charleston, SC and loved it. In fact, we prefer humidity to dryer climates like Colorado precisely because we prefer lots of natural lush greenery - deciduous trees and plant life. We live in Nashville now and the winters are TOO harsh and there's not enough sunshine in general. Charleston's weather we dearly miss - in fact it was even a little bit too cold in the winter for us so we want something similar to that or better.

* Lots of undeveloped natural beauty / but not too dry and not too rainy - woods, trees, rivers, lakes. We are happy with either mountains or ocean as long as it's not too dry (west) and has lots of trees. We like to spend time outdoors even though we're not super sportsy. If it wasn't for the need for sunshine, places like coastal Washington and Oregon would be the top of our list. I understand that inland of those places it isn't rainy, but it's very dry and desert-like - not lush enough for us.

* Progressive / Liberal people - Here is the sticking point. As many other seekers here have noted, the liberal places in the US tend to have crappy weather or are way too crowded or expensive. We HATE Nashville because it's way too conservative on many levels. We want to be able to find healthy food (organic, farm-to-table, local), likeminded social connection and arts/culture within a 15-20 minute drive of our home which we want to be more rural - 15+ acres of woods with lots of undeveloped land around. NOT neighborhood crammed on top of neighborhood like in Colorado. I know lots of people will say this screams Asheville which may be true - but we'd like to find it somewhere where when you drive 5 minutes outside the city you don't find yourself in Deliverance (like Asheville) AND it's not cold enough to snow all winter (like Asheville).

* Not too crowded - We want to be able to live on 15 private, secluded acres but still get to a Whole Foods or Earth Fare/Sprouts/etc in 15 - 20 minutes. So we don't want neighbors on top of us.

We LOVE our home here in the outskirts of Nashville. But we have to drive 45 minutes to get to a decent restaurant in the city and even then it's not easy to find healthy anywhere in Tennessee.

Basically we want the weather of Savannah or north Florida, with the mindset and culture of Vermont or Eugene, OR. (I know, I know if it did exist it would be so crowded and expensive we couldn't live there anyway!)

Also, we ARE open to international locations or non-mainland if it fits the bill, provided we can take our dogs without having to put them in quarantine.

ANY thoughtful, non-snarky insights or ideas are welcome.... Thank you for your time!

p.s. Why did we leave Charleston? Well, we are considering going back because we ask ourselves that everyday!!! But at the time (4 years ago) it felt too small (we've gotten over that after living here), too conservative (more churches than McDonald's and Starbucks and the first question we got asked when we met people was what church do we go to) AND in order to have the rural feel we love for our home we still had to drive 20 - 30 minutes to find healthy food. That has changed a bit since we left so we may have to sacrifice on this point.

[canudigit]

Austin, TX.

If Charleston was too conservative four years ago that will not have changed, and there are getting to be way too many people there for the size of the Metro, people on top of people, which you said you don't want. The Charleston forum here on C-D is full of people lamenting the influx of new residents and horrendous traffic and congestion. Doesn't sound like what you are looking for at all. I'm thinking that the rest of SC would be way too conservative for you if Charleston is, it only gets redder, with the possible exception of Columbia proper.

You probably realize this already on some level, but anyplace that is considered liberal in the South is going to be surrounded by red suburbs and red countryside, that's just how it is. e.g. Some people consider Atlanta to be pretty liberal but the counties surrounding it are generally true red Christian conservative. The South is the Bible Belt, as you're finding out living in the Nashville Metro (a tour guide there once told us that Nashville is considered "the buckle of the Bible Belt", so there you go), and that's just a fact. It may be a bit different around Austin, I wouldn't know, I just know that a lot of people consider it to be a liberal city, but that would mean living in Texas, AKA "Big Red".

Have you considered somewhere like Las Vegas or Phoenix? Very warm and sunny and probably at least somewhat liberal, especially Vegas. I will caution you about Phoenix, because we used to live in a suburb of that city, that the suburbs are also largely conservative and very heavily populated with LDS (Mormons) which sounds like it would be a nightmare for someone with your checklist. Phoenix itself, though, is possibly liberal enough.

There are also some beautiful cities in New Mexico like Santa Fe and Taos that are warm, pretty liberal, and not crowded. NM is generally a blue state as well. That might be a good option for you.

I do realize that the Southwest is not extremely lush or green, but you are probably going to have to tweak some things on your list like most people do to be happy, so choosing which items on your list are top priority would probably lead you to find that the political climate is most critical to you, or at least that's the vibe that your post gives off, so you may have to rethink some of the other points.

[kyle19125]

Orange County NC would suit you well if you can deal with a moderate three month winter. The area around Hillsborough/Efland fulfills all of your criteria and is within 15-20 minutes of Chapel Hill-Carrboro or Durham which are as liberal as it gets in the US.

[Ivory Lee Spurlock]

Originally Posted by canudigit

Austin, TX.

Austin is warm and it's one of the most liberal cities that is not in the Northeast, DC, or the West Coast. But he is also looking for a small city that's not "too" crowded. At nearly a million people and the 11th largest city in the country, Austin is hardly a "small" city and it's crowded enough that many people, if not most people, might consider it "too" crowded. Almost everywhere you go, you're going to have to wait in a line or contend with a large gathering of people.

I'd say Gainesville, Florida might fit the bill. It's a relatively "small" city at 125,000 people, it's in a warm climate, and since there's a large university there, it's probably a fairly liberal "small" city. At 125,000 or so people, it might be crowded every now and then, but not "too" crowded most of the time.

[Lonestarqueen]

Agree that Austin would not be a good match, too many people, bad traffic and home prices are quickly going up so a property with acreage would be 45 mins to an hour outside of the city proper/ the natural grocery stores they are looking for. Plus it's pretty dry during the hot summers so the grass turns brown during the hottest months. I grew up in Florida and think the trees in central Texas are disappointing, I miss the tall pines and full forests. The trees in Austin seem scrub like in comparison.
Gainesville does sound like it could be a good match, it's not far from where I grew up. North Florida does have a lot of right wing rednecks but since Gainesville is a college town it's the blue dot in the sea of red that is N Florida.

[creeksitter]

I was thinking Fairhope AL until I looked at their voting records. I noticed it has the same amount of white poverty as Buncombe Co, NC (10-11%) but higher black poverty (27%). Are you as uncomfortable with black poverty as you are with white poverty? Something to consider if you are moving to the deep south.

it's not easy to find healthy anywhere in Tennessee

I find it very easy but then I live within 2 miles of a natural food co-op and a farmer's market. I suggest you start your search with natural foods groceries and work outward from there.

Since the food scene is important I suggest you look at Birmingham. Of course it's not a small city but it will feel much more accessible than Nashville. Lots of great restaurants and a year round farmer's market. Consider the prosperous suburbs that are immediately adjacent to the city. Maybe you could find a large lot. No it's not country but you will be near markets and great dining and isolated from poverty.

[canudigit]

Originally Posted by creeksitter

I was thinking Fairhope AL until I looked at their voting records. I noticed it has the same amount of white poverty as Buncombe Co, NC (10-11%) but higher black poverty (27%). Are you as uncomfortable with black poverty as you are with white poverty? Something to consider if you are moving to the deep south.



I find it very easy but then I live within 2 miles of a natural food co-op and a farmer's market. I suggest you start your search with natural foods groceries and work outward from there.

Since the food scene is important I suggest you look at Birmingham. Of course it's not a small city but it will feel much more accessible than Nashville. Lots of great restaurants and a year round farmer's market. Consider the prosperous suburbs that are immediately adjacent to the city. Maybe you could find a large lot. No it's not country but you will be near markets and great dining and isolated from poverty.

I just spent time in Alabama earlier this year, including Birmingham. If the OP doesn't like how conservative/Bible Belt Tennessee is then I can fairly predict that she would hate Alabama as well. We saw dozens and dozens of those Bible billboards along the highways and even more Baptist churches than in rural Georgia, if that is even possible. It doesn't bother me at all, I think it's nice, but I'm just saying. She sounds like someone who will only live somewhere where she is surrounded by like minded people so it is going to be very hard to recommend anywhere in the eastern U.S. that meets her climate requirements and her idealogical requirements. I'm thinking that somewhere in south Florida would likely be the best option at this point.

[ProgressiveBelle]

Thank you for your thoughts. Yes, clearly something is going to have to give because I am pretty certain what I want doesn't exist, at least in the mainland US. We return on business to Charleston regularly and have a pretty good feel for how it has grown since we left. Honestly, I see most of it as positive. I think it is still a contender but we will have to relax our desire to get to healthy restaurants / food within 15 minutes. In order to do that we'd have to live in a suburb rather than rural and that's not an option. We will also give Savannah another pass. Thanks again for your insights!

[ProgressiveBelle]

Hmmmm.. hadn't really considered the Chapel Hill/R/D area. Since I'm originally from NC I had mostly nixed everything except possibly Asheville. However, a lot has probably changed since I lived there and honestly I have never really spent much time in that part of the state. Something to ponder.

Austin is out - we visited there prior to moving to Charleston and nixed it because it is WAY too dry as soon as you get a few feet outside the city proper. Also, we found the city to be a bit narrower in a lot of ways than their marketing agency would have people believe. I don't think we'd be happy in Texas..... But thanks for the idea!

Also, we'll do some research on Gainesville. That hadn't really cropped up previously either. Thanks!

[JMT]

I absolutely agree with Gainesville FL. It's the first place I thought of when I read your opening post. Gainesville definitely has the feel of a small town, and it is very liberal. "The People's Republic of Alachua County." It's also very young, the youngest county in Florida. There are 74,000 college students in the area: 50,000 at UF, and 24,000 at Santa Fe College. The North Central Florida countryside is beautiful, and Gainesville is smack in the middle of it, surrounded by farms, horse and cattle ranches, cute little towns (Micanopy, High Springs, Archer, Newberry), and thousands of acres of protected forests, prairies, springs, and lakes.

Gainesville - A Community Portrait - Florida Trend