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Quincy is weird. It’s a lower middle class city of 101,000 people. Its where a lot of Dorchester racist moved during white flight because it borders the white areas of Dorchester. Until 1985 it was like 90%* white. Then a bunch of Chinese moves in and dealt with serious racism. That cooled off by 2000. Black people have started moving in since ~05. I have a cousin, two coworkers there. My ex worked there, I’ve partied there at black parties. A couple venues/ hotels host a black Boston clientele. It has a ton of modern high rise style apartments, and the red line got extended out there in the 1980s. So it has a couple subway stop, as well as I-93. It’s also close to South Shore Plaza.
It’s about 26 square miles but only 16.7 of it is land, 3.9 square miles are inihabited and part of the Blue Hills Reservation.
Nowadays it’s about 7% black 33% Asian 7% Hispanic the rest is white ~53%. In the past year they had 2 racial incidents/fights in their school and a walk out. Haven’t heard much before that, but it does have a bad rep or at least did until very recently. It has a bunch of retail a newly renovated downtown and affordable rents. It’s clean and safe maybe 2 homicides a year. Low level of street crime but it’s there. They build a ton of apartments and retail constantly but they have a tone deaf incompetent mayor who dislikes Boston and stonewalls any collaboration with Boston. Has Wollaston Beach. I like Quincy because it’s more affordable and modern than anywhere else that close to Boston beside Malden but it has bad mojo.
I was looking at Quincy, MA on the map and I noticed that it is southeast of Dorchester on the Redline. I also looked at Nubian Square and noticed that Dorchester, Roxbury, and Mattapan lack subway access. Are there any plans to bring the subway to the Black neighborhoods in Boston? Maybe that is why they don't allow high density to be built in the Black Boston neighborhoods? Lack of subway access?
The areas in Ward 7 and Ward 8 that are getting 7-12 story buildings are around metro stations so it is starting to make more sense why Boston neighborhoods have so much push back. In the Greater Downtown Ward 7 area which is about 3.2 sq. miles, there are 4 metro stations.
I was looking at Quincy, MA on the map and I noticed that it is southeast of Dorchester on the Redline. I also looked at Nubian Square and noticed that Dorchester, Roxbury, and Mattapan lack subway access. Are there any plans to bring the subway to the Black neighborhoods in Boston? Maybe that is why they don't allow high density to be built in the Black Boston neighborhoods? Lack of subway access?
The areas in Ward 7 and Ward 8 that are getting 7-12 story buildings are around metro stations so it is starting to make more sense why Boston neighborhoods have so much push back. In the Greater Downtown Ward 7 area which is about 3.2 sq. miles, there are 4 metro stations.
Do you think Black Boston neighborhoods would be able to build higher density around subway stations if they had them?
Roxbury used to have many trains stops the issue then was it was extremely old. The whole Orange line elevated was built in the early 1900s. It was loud, dirty, and very dangerous. After the failed SouthWest Expressway carved a massive chunk of Western Roxbury, Jamaica Plain, and the South End up in the late 1960s and early 1970s. They took down the Orange Line and moved it west into what is now the Southwest Corridor Park. The subway is exposed and slightly underground as opposed to elevated and on either side of it is a park.
In 2002 they brought the "Silver Line" Glorified bus to Roxbury.. There are no plans to bring back subway service to those areas. What has happened is the Fairmount Line Commuter Rail (only commuter rail line entirely witihin city limits) which runs through Hyde Park, Mattapan, Dorchester, and Roxbury has had its far reduced to subway-like fares. They're now waiting to see if the MBTA will ever electrify the line to provide faster turnarounds/service. My uncle lives about a 30-second walk from the Commuter Rail Line. Its very quick into downtown but the service is pretty scant.
In the early 2010s, the city re-opened or built new several stations there including one in Hyde Park as well as on Blue Hill Avenue. But there is no plan for new subway line there, those type of things go to Somerville and the wealthy suburbs of Boston. Technically the new Orange Line does go through the edges of Northwest Roxbury at Roxbury Crossing, and Ruggles Station.
Much of Roxbury was completely demolished to clear the way for a highway that never happened. That Roadway is Columbus Ave now, until it turns into Tremont Street. And Melnea Cass Boulvard as well. Most of this has been redeveloped.
The T also has several stops in Dorchester but they're in areas that are fully settled and occupied (Ashmont, Shawmut, Fields Corner, Savin Hill). All of these areas are diverse but non are solidly black maybe pluarlity- perhaps Ashmont, and that's gentrifying) . I lived near Shawmut for a while. Mattapan Square has trolley access and is seeing a major apartment building built adjacent to the Mattapan Square T stop.
MOST MBTA Stations in Dorchester Roxbury and Mattapan avoid the heart of the black areas and where they are in the heart of the black areas they're trolley or wack Silver-Line (aka the "Silver Lie") fake BRT. Hyde Park only has Commuter Rail.
To be fair, the thread is about more than black professionals. You still need families within said urban neighborhoods and they are an important component.
Also, have Wards 7 and 8 or Largo seen any interest from people of other groups in terms of moving into those areas? That alone may answer some of these questions, as that also may be the difference between DC and the other major cities mentioned.
There's definitely been an increase in young white and Asian people renting in Largo, ostensibly due to lower prices compared to other parts of the DMV and the opening of the hospital near Largo Town Center metro. I wouldn't call it an influx but more than there used to be. Of course we are talking about communities that were 95+% Black so even just a few non black residents will be noticeable.
Nearly all the folks buying property however are Black and those apartments near the metro are easily at least 90% Black.
Roxbury used to have many trains stops the issue then was it was extremely old. The whole Orange line elevated was built in the early 1900s. It was loud, dirty, and very dangerous. After the failed SouthWest Expressway carved a massive chunk of Western Roxbury, Jamaica Plain, and the South End up in the late 1960s and early 1970s. They took down the Orange Line and moved it west into what is now the Southwest Corridor Park. The subway is exposed and slightly underground as opposed to elevated and on either side of it is a park.
In 2002 they brought the "Silver Line" Glorified bus to Roxbury.. There are no plans to bring back subway service to those areas. What has happened is the Fairmount Line Commuter Rail (only commuter rail line entirely witihin city limits) which runs through Hyde Park, Mattapan, Dorchester, and Roxbury has had its far reduced to subway-like fares. They're now waiting to see if the MBTA will ever electrify the line to provide faster turnarounds/service. My uncle lives about a 30-second walk from the Commuter Rail Line. Its very quick into downtown but the service is pretty scant.
In the early 2010s, the city re-opened or built new several stations there including one in Hyde Park as well as on Blue Hill Avenue. But there is no plan for new subway line there, those type of things go to Somerville and the wealthy suburbs of Boston. Technically the new Orange Line does go through the edges of Northwest Roxbury at Roxbury Crossing, and Ruggles Station.
Much of Roxbury was completely demolished to clear the way for a highway that never happened. That Roadway is Columbus Ave now, until it turns into Tremont Street. And Melnea Cass Boulvard as well. Most of this has been redeveloped.
The T also has several stops in Dorchester but they're in areas that are fully settled and occupied (Ashmont, Shawmut, Fields Corner, Savin Hill). All of these areas are diverse but non are solidly black maybe pluarlity- perhaps Ashmont, and that's gentrifying) . I lived near Shawmut for a while. Mattapan Square has trolley access and is seeing a major apartment building built adjacent to the Mattapan Square T stop.
MOST MBTA Stations in Dorchester Roxbury and Mattapan avoid the heart of the black areas and where they are in the heart of the black areas they're trolley or wack Silver-Line (aka the "Silver Lie") fake BRT. Hyde Park only has Commuter Rail.
The MBTA Fairmont Commuter Line only runs every 45 minutes with the last train toward downtown Boston leaving at 10:15 pm. Boston can't think that is good enough for Boston's Black neighborhoods which used to have subway service. I swear you can't make this stuff up. That is completely unfair to the Black residents of the city! They are the ones that need it the most. SMH....
The MBTA Fairmont Commuter Line only runs every 45 minutes with the last train toward downtown Boston leaving at 10:15 pm. Boston can't think that is good enough for Boston's Black neighborhoods which used to have subway service. I swear you can't make this stuff up. That is completely unfair to the Black residents of the city! They are the ones that need it the most. SMH....
Well yea. Everyone agrees with you. BOSTON wants different. Boston doesn’t control the MBTA or have a seat on its board. It’s a state entity. It what the STATE determines is okay. Just another example of that. The state doesn’t give a damn about the Fairmount corridor. Deval Patrick had gotten ready to purchase DMU engines for more frequent service but then didn’t run for a third term, Charlie Baker got in the governors office on his third attempt and said “F that my constituency is wealthy suburban areas”
When I was growing up there was even less service and fewer stations. Add to that there was a 15 year gap with no Silver Lie BRT. 1987-2001. Dudley declined tremendously during that time because it was also when ISD closed down basically all the nightlife like Roscoes, Biarritz Lounge, Connollys, and others for violations and violence in order to promote public safety. In those days and for a while after Gypsy Cabs we’re common at Dudley Station and in Mattapan Square. I took one or two. Dudley Square then was home to crack dealers, crackheads, many vacant lots and buildings, arson, rapes, stabbing sand the like with extreme levels of frequency. It has improved tremendously since then. It was so scary back then I used to cry if we had to take the bus from there with my aunt/ I would basically try to refuse to go.
Nowadays most of the black community doesn’t care or is very quiet as they fear gentrification from an electrified commuter rail. Some even protested additional Fairmount Corridor stops for fear of gentrification. SoMa Mattapan increased rents 25% after the completion of the cummins highway stop. And they were slandered in local media. So they’re fears aren’t unjustified.
Well yea. Everyone agrees with you. BOSTON wants different. Boston doesn’t control the MBTA or have a seat on its board. It’s a state entity. It what the STATE determines is okay. Just another example of that. The state doesn’t give a damn about the Fairmount corridor. Deval Patrick had gotten ready to purchase DMU engines for more frequent service but then didn’t run for a third term, Charlie Baker got in the governors office on his third attempt and said “F that my constituency is wealthy suburban areas”
When I was growing up there was even less service and fewer stations. Add to that there was a 15 year gap with no Silver Lie BRT. 1987-2001. Dudley declined tremendously during that time because it was also when ISD closed down basically all the nightlife like Roscoes, Biarritz Lounge, Connollys, and others for violations and violence in order to promote public safety. In those days and for a while after Gypsy Cabs we’re common at Dudley Station and in Mattapan Square. I took one or two. Dudley Square then was home to crack dealers, crackheads, many vacant lots and buildings, arson, rapes, stabbing sand the like with extreme levels of frequency. It has improved tremendously since then. It was so scary back then I used to cry if we had to take the bus from there with my aunt/ I would basically try to refuse to go.
Nowadays most of the black community doesn’t care or is very quiet as they fear gentrification from an electrified commuter rail. Some even protested additional Fairmount Corridor stops for fear of gentrification. SoMa Mattapan increased rents 25% after the completion of the cummins highway stop. And they were slandered in local media. So they’re fears aren’t unjustified.
This is what city’s deal with when their not an autonomous district like Washington. What can ya do?
Larry Hogans and Charlie Bakers of the world have the final say.
It depends on the state though. Atlanta has a seat on the MARTA board for instance. They also pay a tax that other non MARTA jurisdictions don’t. Does all of Massachusetts pay for MBTA?
WMATA also is paid for by DC, PG, MOCO, Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax, and soon to be Loudon county. The rest of the jurisdictions don’t pay for it.
It depends on the state though. Atlanta has a seat on the MARTA board for instance. They also pay a tax that other non MARTA jurisdictions don’t. Does all of Massachusetts pay for MBTA?
WMATA also is paid for by DC, PG, MOCO, Arlington, Alexandria, Fairfax, and soon to be Loudon county. The rest of the jurisdictions don’t pay for it.
Yes, ALL of Massachusetts does, in fact, pay for the MBTA. Remember- we dont have county governments. And towns don't and wouldnt pay for the MBTA on their own. They'd simply say no thanks. Even when its paid for there have been times where they have said no thanks. (in the 30+ year past)
Yes, ALL of Massachusetts does, in fact, pay for the MBTA. Remember- we dont have county governments. And towns don't and wouldnt pay for the MBTA on their own. They'd simply say no thanks. Even when its paid for there have been times where they have said no thanks. (in the 30+ year past)
Would you support a local tax to take it out of the states hands?
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