Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That feels about right. So using OP’s previous list, we have:
Interesting. If I have a chance later I’ll calculate percentage of population as well.
Also curious to know how many of these cities have a proper Little Italy neighborhood. Rochester does not (however there is a neighborhood group attempting to form one now, I think in vain).
Certainly true. I supposed the combination of the largest wave of Italian immigrants dying off with intermixing inside Millennial/Gen Z, we’re naturally going to see a smaller number of self identified Italian-Americans.
There is/was one along North Salina Street in Syracuse, but it has kind of faded away, with only a handful of businesses still around. If anything, it is arguably one of the more diverse areas in Upstate NY now due to refugees/immigrants and other people just moving in, while many Italians move out to outer city neighborhoods(if they stay in the city) or to the suburbs.
The Italians generally only lasted a generation or two in a neighborhood before moving on. Buffalo's "Little Italy" neighborhood has moved 3 times just in my lifetime:
- In the 1960s it was centered on the Lower West Side, particularly Connecticut Street where the Italian Festival was held until the 1970s. Only one Italian business remains from the day, Mineo & Sappio sausage makers.
- Even then the primary Italian neighborhood was moving to the West Side, particularly Grant-Ferry area. Still a few Italians and businesses around, like Guercio's Market, but its now a mix of all cultures, primarily Puerto Rican and a gateway to new immigrants.
- By the 1970s North Buffalo became the primary Little Italy, but it wasn't until the 80s or 90s that they began marketing itself as that. The Italian Festival moved here in the late 70s, though even before that there were religious processions held at the churches. But even by the 90s the many of the small Italian businesses had already closed shop, where once there were a dozen Italian grocers have now whittled down to 2 or 3, and there are as many Middle Eastern restaurants as Italian restaurants on Hertel today.
Before Connecticut Street the older Italian neighborhood had been the area behind city hall, which was demolished as part of urban renewal beginning in the 50s. Today most of the Italians have moved to the suburbs, particularly Tonawanda, which is just outside the North Buffalo neighborhood.
That feels about right. So using OP’s previous list, we have:
Interesting. If I have a chance later I’ll calculate percentage of population as well.
Also curious to know how many of these cities have a proper Little Italy neighborhood. Rochester does not (however there is a neighborhood group attempting to form one now, I think in vain).
Certainly true. I supposed the combination of the largest wave of Italian immigrants dying off with intermixing inside Millennial/Gen Z, we’re naturally going to see a smaller number of self identified Italian-Americans.
In the most populous Italian enclaves in the country, back in the day and even currently, you will find very few “Little Italys.” These are normally tourist designations and the “Little Italy” is as much of a marketing name as anything else.
The NYC Manhattan neighborhood made it famous, and other cities followed suit, but regions with large Italian populations rarely have an official “Little Italy.” In NYC, the stretches of the Bronx, and several enclaves in Long Island and Staten Island still have stretches of authentic Italian owned restaurants, shops, etc, and even residential population, but you won’t find it called “Little Italy.”
For decades, “South Philly” has never needed to describe itself as “Little Italy.” Similar to many Italian American enclaves throughout the Northeast, including parts of upstate NY, like Rochester.
Even in Chicago, the official “Little Italy” is a shell of itself and about the only thing Italian about it nowadays is it’s name and a couple restaurants, museums, and churches. Most Chicagoans will tell you the real “Little Italy” is a stretch of north Harlem Ave that runs from the NW side up through some of the collar suburbs. However, it’s not called “Little Italy.”
Whenever I hear people talk about this or that city’s “Little Italy,” I don’t expect it to be much more than some restaurants and maybe a few old time residents. However, there are still some existing authentic Italian American enclaves, especially in parts of the northeast and ever upper Midwest. They are not marketed as “Little Italy,” however.
Last edited by personone; 07-28-2022 at 03:31 PM..
Reason: Meant to type Harlem “Ave/Avenue” (rather than Street)
Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
6,504 posts, read 7,536,063 times
Reputation: 6878
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
So is this pretty much the end of Italian America?
Didn't Tony Soprano call them Wonder Bread Wops in one episode, classic line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by personone
Whenever I hear people talk about this or that city’s “Little Italy,” I don’t expect it to be much more than some restaurants and maybe a few old time residents.
I always thought it was funny that the Mexican Consulate in San Diego is in the middle of Little Italy district on India Street.
Well, the less "hyphen" Americas there the better probably. "Italian America" started to die when Italians entered the middle class, started to intermarry more with other groups, move out of their ethnic enclave neighborhoods and just morphed into America as a whole. Isn't that how it's supposed to work with all immigrant groups?
I am all for assimilation, I am an immigrant who is fully assimilated and is more American than not, but I think its a shame to lose each other's cultural heritage. I don't think homogenisation of any kind should be championed.
Yup, Michigan, Ohio, and the Upper Midwest have pretty sizable Italian American populations, even in more rural/ less populated part of the states. As you point out, similar to what you may see in upstate NY, norther PA, and in New England.
These are some of the subtle characteristics that connect “The North” (which includes the Northeast and the Upper Midwest).
I knew a dude in Saint Paul who was part Italian but played it up like he was 110% lol. Even had that New York-type accent despite never having lived outside the Twin Cities. Another Italian-American broad called him a poseur lol but there's definitely a sizeable Italian prescence up here, specifically St. Paul. My first job in Minnesota was at Mancini's, a Saint Paul staple. Italian-American steakhouse.
I knew a dude in Saint Paul who was part Italian but played it up like he was 110% lol. Even had that New York-type accent despite never having lived outside the Twin Cities. Another Italian-American broad called him a poseur lol but there's definitely a sizeable Italian prescence up here, specifically St. Paul. My first job in Minnesota was at Mancini's, a Saint Paul staple. Italian-American steakhouse.
There were a lot of those guys walking around when The Sopranos was on the air lol.
Similarly, a ton of “Guidos” came out of the woodwork when Jersey Shore aired.
I am all for assimilation, I am an immigrant who is fully assimilated and is more American than not, but I think its a shame to lose each other's cultural heritage. I don't think homogenisation of any kind should be championed.
I'm an immigrant myself, and it's impossible for a 1st generation immigrant to assimilate because you were raised the way you were raised with the cultural influences that brought with it. Nothing can take away the memories.
But I have no illusions about the fact that if you want to preserve for instance your Italian cultural heritage for several generations to come then you should probably just stay in Italy.
Most Italian-Americans today descend from people that arrived in America 110-140 years ago i.e. even the parents of the seniors today likely were born in this country and for millennials and younger you'd need to go back to great-grandparents and beyond to find their ancestors born in 'the old country'.
Have they lost anything? Well, they're no longer Italians, but that doesn't mean they can't eat Italian food they like or sing Italian songs, it's just going to be different. And that's not always a bad thing. So many 'Anglo' Americans descend from Irish, Scottish and English settlers who came to America with deeply entrenched sectarian sentiments and mutual hatred based on what happened in the 'old country', and yet over time that has become less and less of a factor as people intermarried and became more and more American. Today, animosity between English/Scottish protestants and Irish catholics in America has become a non-issue pretty much. Becoming Americanized should bring closure on what divided people in the past and a focus on what people have in common instead.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
