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Chicago is one of the least sophisticated major cities in America, which is precisely why it is so unpretentious. You either love this or hate this, but as it's impossible to pretend that Chicago is unpretentious and also more sophisticated than hyper-glamorous Miami.
You probably have a different definition of sophisticated than the poster you're responding to.
Explain how Chicago can be considered less sophisticated than Phoenix, Houston, Vegas or San Antonio.
Chicago is one of the least sophisticated major cities in America, which is precisely why it is so unpretentious. You either love this or hate this, but as it's impossible to pretend that Chicago is unpretentious and also more sophisticated than hyper-glamorous Miami.
A city with:
World renowned architecture
World renowned museums and art institutions
A population more highly educated than LA or NYC
Some of the finest dining in North America
Competitive higher educational institutions across the city
One of the fiserv and legal hubs of the first world
And an MSA with some of the best school districts in the United States
Is also one of the least sophisticated major cities in America?
As others have alluded to, I think a proper explanation is warranted. We know you do not like Chicago, all good. But this one is going to be verrryyyy hard to defend, without getting to "I just don't like Chicago".
Even if your position is that the city just doesn't feel or look sophisticated, that's a tough hill to stand on. The north and near west sides are very "tasteful" and "elegant" neighborhoods.
This is very untrue. Chicago has some of the best cultural instututions in the country, which are supported by a very sophisticated and educated group of people. Chicago was ranked as the best educated large city in America. Glam is not sophistication-2 types of different people. It is also Midwest traditional, so less showy.
That has been disproven, ad nauseum, on threads. Unless you're only comparing it to NYC and LA, Chicago falls shorts of many other major cities and metros as far as educational attainment.
Idk about stats but I get the impression that Omaha is pretty well educated. I am biased though cuz a good friend of mine grew up there lol. Omaha and Nebraska in general are the pinnacle of unpretentiousness.
You probably have a different definition of sophisticated than the poster you're responding to.
Explain how Chicago can be considered less sophisticated than Phoenix, Houston, Vegas or San Antonio.
Those aren't all major cities and I do think that Chicago is closer to Houston in terms of sophistication than it is to Boston, San Francisco, and Washington DC. And I don't think anyone would really dispute that.
This is very untrue. Chicago has some of the best cultural instututions in the country, which are supported by a very sophisticated and educated group of people. Chicago was ranked as the best educated large city in America. Glam is not sophistication-2 types of different people. It is also Midwest traditional, so less showy.
Chicago is reasonably well educated but it is far from "the best educated large city in America." People are what make a city "sophisticated," not cultural institutions. They often intersect of course but cities like Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and Ckeveland all boast an impressive ability to punch well above their weight in terms of cultural offerings. Yet at the end of the day they are still Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Legacy cities are like that because those institutions were created back when those cities actually were wealthy, cosmopolitan places. That's not true of Cleveland or Pittsburgh or St. Louis today and it's not true of Chicago, either.
World renowned architecture
World renowned museums and art institutions
A population more highly educated than LA or NYC
Some of the finest dining in North America
Competitive higher educational institutions across the city
One of the fiserv and legal hubs of the first world
And an MSA with some of the best school districts in the United States
Is also one of the least sophisticated major cities in America?
As others have alluded to, I think a proper explanation is warranted. We know you do not like Chicago, all good. But this one is going to be verrryyyy hard to defend, without getting to "I just don't like Chicago".
Even if your position is that the city just doesn't feel or look sophisticated, that's a tough hill to stand on. The north and near west sides are very "tasteful" and "elegant" neighborhoods.
I feel like we are talking about two different things in terms of what actually constitutes "sophistication" in urban life. I think it's mainly about the people and you are talking about the institutions. Chicago has always marketed itself as a really attractive place precisely because it is a blue collar, "everyman" city with world class cultural institutions. It's the place where Big Ten grads can come and enjoy urban infrastructure and life and world class culture without having to go outside of the small town, down home Midwestern milieu that you very much feel in Chicago. Personally you are right--I hate it. But all of the people who do love Chicago love precisely that and the people who do love Chicago are usually emphatically not sophisticated people who are almost always attracted to the coasts for very obvious reasons.
Those aren't all major cities and I do think that Chicago is closer to Houston in terms of sophistication than it is to Boston, San Francisco, and Washington DC. And I don't think anyone would really dispute that.
So were you saying Chicago is less sophisticated than Miami? I don't necessarily disagree with your comparison of Chicago with these other cities but Miami is definitely not a place known for sophistication.
I don't know if everybody has the same definition of pretentious. Is it snobby, elitist rich people? People who put stickers on the back of their car of the prestigious college they or their kids went to? People with green hair who were into "..." before anyone had heard of it? In New York you find a lot of the first type, in Boston the second, in Portland and Minneapolis the third.
I feel like we are talking about two different things in terms of what actually constitutes "sophistication" in urban life. I think it's mainly about the people and you are talking about the institutions. Chicago has always marketed itself as a really attractive place precisely because it is a blue collar, "everyman" city with world class cultural institutions. It's the place where Big Ten grads can come and enjoy urban infrastructure and life and world class culture without having to go outside of the small town, down home Midwestern milieu that you very much feel in Chicago. Personally you are right--I hate it. But all of the people who do love Chicago love precisely that and the people who do love Chicago are usually emphatically not sophisticated people who are almost always attracted to the coasts for very obvious reasons.
I can meet you somewhere in between on this.
While you're right about having a very strong blue collar reputation, the top end of Chicago, largely found in the northside and into the northshore, is about as affluent, sophisticated, well traveled and well educated as it gets. Is it Boston or DC or San Francisco? No.
But I don't see a real difference between NYC, LA, or Chicago in this way. All three share the same type of socioeconomic diversity. All three have many different areas. All three have varying degrees of sophistication. Yes Manhattan is head and shoulders above the rest, but using your logic, NYC and LA are probably more blue collar cities.
Don't forget, Chicago is arguably the top destination for Northwestern, University of Chicago, Notre Dame, Michigan, Illinois, and Wisconsin graduates. So while it doesn't get the same type of domestic migration coastal cities do, it does pull in a lot of brainpower. If only Iowa graduates would stay away...
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